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Corwin D
США
Добавлен 7 сен 2015
Problem with the Veritas Inset Vise
Sorry about the poor quality video, but I hope this will show the main issue with the Veritas Inset Vise.
The loose fit between the steel pins on the removable jaws and the holes in the aluminum carriage allow the jaws to raise up and lean back. As you advance the carriage, initial resistance is only met once the jaw has leaned back to where only the bottom edge of the jaw is making contact, and is essentially prying the work up off the bench. If you look closely you can see that the carriage itself also raises up, adding to the problem. Imagine how it would work after some use...
I wish I hadn't chopped a big hole in my bench to accommodate this particular inset vise. Lots of time and effo...
The loose fit between the steel pins on the removable jaws and the holes in the aluminum carriage allow the jaws to raise up and lean back. As you advance the carriage, initial resistance is only met once the jaw has leaned back to where only the bottom edge of the jaw is making contact, and is essentially prying the work up off the bench. If you look closely you can see that the carriage itself also raises up, adding to the problem. Imagine how it would work after some use...
I wish I hadn't chopped a big hole in my bench to accommodate this particular inset vise. Lots of time and effo...
Просмотров: 3 981
I know it has been 9 years since this was posted, but kudos! This is so helpful! Thanks!
Thank you for watching and I do appreciate your nice comment!
I think "ripping" is cutting along the grain of natural woods.
Sounds like maybe you didn't watch far enough. While the jigs were made of sheet goods, they wee indeed used to rip solid wood along the grain. Look again. Then again, this jig can be used to cut narrow pieces on either solid wood or sheet goods.
have they resolved this issue yet?
Sorry, but I don't have an answer to that question.
Can’t thank you enough for providing this to the community, did you use Sketchup to produce this animation?
Yes, I wanted to get to know SketchUp so started modeling this and discovered that I could make it into an animation. It became a monster. Thank you for your comment!
Brilliant graphics but now I know that someone has a more convoluted mind than mine 😂. Unfortunately I am a vegetarian and could not conscience using a Spam tin as a spacer. This video was excellent and a lot of hard work went into it. I see that it was made in 2015 and the advances in tool aids probably renders this a bit obsolete now. Thank you for making this, I enjoyed watching it.
Thank you for your kind reply! Much appreciated.
This is really an example of over engineering a simple problem. All you need to do is measure from the cutline to the right for your narrow strip that you’re gonna rip. And take into account the thickness of the blade and you’re done. Look up Peter Miller on RUclips. He goes through how to make narrow cuts and you don’t need to sacrifice a 4 x 8 sheet of whatever to make narrow cuts. This is cleaver but just too much work.
Brilliant graphic explanation and animation! Thanks!
Thank you!
Brilliant. I like that the narrow strip sits under the rail, which produces a splinter free cut. The sacrificial piece underneath will quickly wear out after cutting various narrow sizes. I would create a wide dado, 1/8 deep to accommodate a sacrificial piece as wide as the rail. Thanks for sharing the idea.
I just acquired one of these second hand (never been used, still in it's box). I have taken a look and mine doesn't suffer this issue. Perhaps there was a specific batch of these that somehow passed their QA checks and wasn't picked up for some reason?
Cannot you demo all this in real life with real tools and materials!? Please!
Came back here to say that that's how the vise is meant to be. just like the angled face of a bench dog, the vise is angled and loose like that to lock the piece in place. you didn't stumble upon a design flaw.
My Veritas vise simply failed to hold most workpieces in place. Seemed like a design flaw to me, as it was supposed to be designed to do just that. The HNT Gordon vise I replaced it with works flawlessly every time and has no looseness what so ever -- a much superior design in my opinion after having used both vises on my bench.
Is it at least functioning properly? I mean can it at least still holding materials?
No, it did not function properly -- that's what this video was attempting to display. I returned this product shortly after purchasing as it constantly failed to hold material.
@@corwind3888 to day I was about to order it and I decided to make some RUclips search for this vice.. That's how I came across this vedio of yours then I went to read about other people reviews on the same subject.. Thanks again for sharing and also thanks for suggesting the alternative product "HNT Gordon tail vice" by the way if you have any updates on how you found the HNT one so far I would love to hear more about it 🌹👍🏼
@@hussainal-hussaini8483 Glad this video was helpful to you. My HNT Gordon vice is very high quality and works perfectly. Not so for the Veritas vice.
I am really glad I ended up with the HNT vice. It just oozes with quality. It is very solid and the lead screw is smooth. It's a keeper!
Thanks for sharing man!
Is the slider (moving part with holes) made of aluminium or steel?
The slider is aluminum.
@@corwind3888 Thank for the answer! That is not good. Such parts have to be made of steel ...
It makes no sense. Why the brown board in the first version? You don’t have that measurement. Silly.
Interesting. Thank you.
I love the wooden add-on on the router. I'm definitely going to make that!
Hello, Is the distance between the 2 fences exactly the same as 2 times the width of the rail? Or is it a little wider? I measure 183mm for the Festool rail. (so, 183mm x2 - thickness one fence between the fences?) And do you have any idea where to find affordable scale tracks? Thanks!
Thanks for sharing. I love many of the Veritas tools. Especially Wonder dogs are so great, as well as the bench blade. I wanted to buy this inset vise, but found some reports about problems. Glad you shared the video. The pins are simply way too short. No wonder it does not work. I will either buy a different solution or maybe build a simple "moving" dog hole in the bench itself. That's by far the cheapest solution (never seen that before -- I can't imagine nobody had done this before....) and should be very strong.
Same. This was a good tool for about six months, but it's not built to last.
Interesting that yours was good for six months. This was mine right out of the box. Replacement parts were just as problematic. But, my new HNT Gordon vice is very nice.
I’m surprised and disappointed at this. Usually Veritas/lee valley tools are some of the highest quality. I was about to purchase this for my bench. When you returned it, did Lee Valley have any comments about this issue?
Yes, I was surprised and disappointed also. Customer support did not seem to understand the issue. They did send a replacement carriage, but that had the same problem. They never commented on the issue after I returned it for a refund. The HNT Gordon vice that I installed afterwards is fabulous.
what is this cartoon.
This is wonderful, I was thinking of something like your ideas/plan/jig . Having some drafting background , I was planning something like a drafting table with a t-square but can’t finalize anything since I am a newbie DIY Wannabe. Like to try these with my MAKITA Track/Plunge Saw. Thank You Very Much For Sharing... 👍👏🏻🙏
Is this using the Incra Shop Stops and their fence system?
Sorry I missed you question! Yes, I have used the Incremental Track and Shop Stops. But, that's just what I had on hand -- you could use anything you want.
thanks - bought the HNT Gordon one. Disappointing
Slip a washer under the back of it
I no longer have this to try your suggestion, however I highly suspect that the addition of a washer would only make the problem much worse. The pins on the removable jaws are already too short for the task, and adding a washer would only make the jaw ride higher out of the holes in the carriage. Best to just get a different product altogether and skip the inherent problems with this design.
Thanks for the suggestion. This sounded like it might work, so I tried it. Unfortunately the washer didn't help -- just as Corwin D predicted.
Where did you buy it? Is it really written 'Veritas' on it?' (I tried to read but...i couldn't see very well). Can't it be a copy?
I purchased this directly from Lee Valley. It has the Veritas label. No, definitely not a copy. And, I' not the only one that has experienced this issue.
Returning mine today. Exactly the same problem. I wish I have seen this before. Spent time installing it. Just bad design...
What a life saver. I was pulling the trigger on this vice and then saw your video. Order cancelled. Veritas makes beautifully made products - i'm really surprised at this design failure.
Thank you for your reply and I'm glad that my video spared you from the troubles I had. The HNT Gordon Inset Vice is much, much better, and is what I now have installed in my bench.
Has veritas made a fix for this problem yet ????
I have no idea if they are working on a fix, or not. If you get any information from them, please reply here with an update. Thanks.
Mine has the exact issue right out of the box
This video was taken right after installation, so you could say it was right out of the box also. Unfortunately, I didn't realize the problem until I had installed this vise into my workbench. Veritas customer service wasn't any help so I returned the vise and replaced it with the much, much, much better HNT Gordon Inset Tail Vice. Right about twice the price, but it works flawlessly and looks like it will last several lifetimes.
Well done sir
Thanks, Luigi!
Was it like that when you bought it or has the problem come over time? Thanks for video! Im about to build my own first workbench so these things are hugely valuable!
Thanks for this question! I discovered this the first time I used it after installing the new vise. Customer service did send me a new carriage and removable jaws, but these also had the same problem. Returned for a refund. Ordered some birch to match my bench and spent a lot of time patching. I'm currently finishing up on installing the HNT Gordon Inset Tail Vice -- not totally done, but I've already tried it and it works perfectly and is simply a superb vise. The Veritas vise was half the price but ended up costing me a lot in time and frustration.
Where did you get those quick release from? 0.07 Sorry for my bad english😅
I made prototypes from Rockler Cam Clamps, some bolts, 3/4" metal washers, 20mm rubber washers and some spacers -- all "off the shelf" hardware. I did purchase a metal lathe to turn parts to make these, but I had bad luck with the mini-lathes as I went through three lathes without having a lathe that worked properly. I made up these prototypes over a decade ago, and still use them on my fence today.
Corwin D thanks for the fast respons :)
Thanks for sharing. Lots of saw dust. There's got to be an easier way
*I've had this saw for a year or more and it has virtually replaced my corded circular saw>>>**ur2.pl/792** Plenty of power for 2x4's and even 4x4's (obviously can't make total cut through cut in 4x4's). Very solid, one of the best tools I've ever bought!*
Great idea, where did you get the extruded fence? Thanks.
Thanks! The extruded fences are Incra's Incremental Track. www.incrementaltools.com/category_s/166.htm
I was thinking about building something similar for my workbench. Do you think there is a paractical solution to have the Saw-Kerf always stay in place, so it cuts at the edge of my bench, and move the stock against a fence, similar to your 3rd jig solution?
Yes, you can make a setup like that. Have you seen my other animation "Zero-Clearance Fence for MFT & Sled w/ Fence?" With that setup, the guide rail is at a fixed location and the sled w/ fence moves left or right to establish the width of cut. For your bench, you could use something like a pair of clamping squares as stops to locate the back edge of the piece in this video that is hinged to the guide rail -- a square at each end with one leg stand up vertical to stop against. This will provide a fixed location and accommodate various thicknesses of material to be cut. Then, you could have scales (like the final version of the jig in this video) to locate either the workpiece to be cut, or for narrow cuts, a fenced sled with your workpiece on top. The workpiece or sled would need to fit between the guide rail stops on either end... Hope I've explained this correctly, and in a way you can understand. :)
This video would be far more popular if you add "turn on captions" in the title. Its a great idea! Cheap too!! Im doing version 1 in the morning while my dewalt tablesaw is in the shop AGAIN!
Thank you for your comment! Sorry about the captions -- my first real project in SketchUp and also my first RUclips effort. Please let me know how it goes after you make yours.
Corwin D Will be glad to let you know. This idea is really good and cheap. I thought I was gonna do it today but, when i said that i didnt take the fact that there is a project on the bench ive got to finish...
Corwin, are the stops on your setup the Incra stops? I appreciate your vids, although sometimes I have to watch them multiple times in order to fully understand them.
Yes, those are Incra Shop Stops. Sorry that my vids are so hard to follow. At least by viewing them several times, you were able to understand what I had attempted to convey. The jig/fixture I show here is one I made over a decade ago. It was made to use with my longer 1900 and 3000mm guide rails, and is used on larger/longer material. Thanks for your comment.
99 Likes thus far! Thanks!!! Wonder who will be the 100th?
Corwin D 137th like although I still dont understand what i just watched. I know i should get it, really want those repeatable narrow cuts but, just not there yet. Gonna keep watching and see if the bell goes off for me. I know you just laid it out. YOU NEED TO PUT "TURN ON CLOSED CAPTION IN THE TITLE"!!!!!!!!!
how thick is your wood. 2 spam cans and a chapstick diameter. thanks can you convert that to baked beans?
Careful using beans around a tracksaw. Wouldn't want to accidentally cut the beans.
great animation man....
Thank you, Marc!
is this one jig or different alternatives?
I show three versions, each a little more complex than the one before. I did this in an attempt to not overwhelm the viewer with too complex a jig (or fixture, if you prefer.) Make sure to view with Closed Caption turned ON.
Hi, i see this is something awesome, genious, but i cannot reach the point. I’ve been wtched and watched, no result, sorry . If you would be so kind to explain a bit?
First off, be sure to turn Closed Caption ON when viewing this, or my other animations. This animation illustrates two concepts you can use independently, or together, on a Festool MFT. First is the use of a zero-clearance fence. This allows your material to be fully supported behind the end of the cut, as opposed to the standard MFT's fence. Further, it allows you to quickly position your material to align the intended cut line with the kerf in the [replaceable] center sub-fence. You cut separate center sub-fence sections for each material thickness that you will need. The second concept is the fenced sled. This sled allows you to quickly cut pieces that are narrower than the guide rail. The sled can be positioned left/right as needed along the MFT's fence to set the intended width of cut. Place your material up to the sled's fence with another piece of same thickness to the left of the fence to more fully support the guide rail during the cut. Hope this helps. If not, please feel free to ask further questions.
Corwin D genious! Thank you
Excellent explanation in this way - Thank you for passing this on - A Gem of an idea 💡
Glad you liked my SketchUp animation. Thank you for your comment.
thats not a jig, its a fixture, and it relies on a new one for every new thickness of material
Man who only read half a book Never know full story
True, and fixtures have benefits over jigs, depending on the situation. Corwin's fixture could be evolved to handle multiple thicknesses thru the use of something like the tall Parf Dogs or similar. In any case, the track wants to be supported by a scrap of a similar thickness as the workpiece(s).
Too bad you guys have focused on the jig vs fixture issue rather than understanding how this works. It does handle different thickness material by simply using similar thickness material to support the rail. No Parf Dogs required. Really. This will work for any thickness that your saw will handle without any further evolution. And, the original reply from 'The President of The Internet' is both a misunderstanding of thickness vs width, and a failure to view to the end of this video to see the third version of the jig/fixture.
Corwin, as Pat McRight points out, this is a very simple and elegant solution; however, because you also own an MFT setup, you keenly understand the challenges of single purpose jigs and fixtures, which includes storage. My comment about the use of Parf Dogs is not intended to drive people away from you solution, but rather to get them to explore how your 3rd solution can be further evolved into a fixture with greater adaptability and fewer uniquely applicable parts.
Spam and Chapstick in the same video! Why couldn't I find this when I needed it?
What? I offer up both Spam and Chapstick and I don't get a thumbs up? Seriously? -- No soup for you! LOL
Damn, I knew that last beer was a mistake, have this thumbs up young man and well deserved it is too.
This is so brilliant ... Thank you for sharing!
You're welcome. And thank you for your nice comment!
At around 1:30 I got what you where doing ... and then it just kept getting better and better! This is basically a "copier" ... The best thing is that it is so simple and also easy to apply the concept on other projects ... I am going to use this idea for a jig to use with my router ... :)
The idea of this jig is to assist in cutting strips that are narrower than the width of the guide rail. Placing a same-thickness piece to the left of the jig's fence supports the guide rail during the cut. Hinging the guide rail makes cutting multiple pieces to a given width a faster process.
Yea ... I totally get that. And this probably saved me some money, as I no longer need the Festool parallel guides that I was planning to buy for this purpose. The concept is easy to apply on other jigs for other purposes and also great if you will be making the same cuts in the future. I have a lot of ideas where I will use this principal ... Again, thank you for sharing this ... !
Thx!