Видео

I used to listen to many pastors such as voddie, Paul washer, John MacArthur and Steve Lawson and a few others I’m sure, I got to a point where I started to believe that on my own from listening to these guys even though I never heard a sermon on it or anyone directly teach on it I started to automatically assume it by thinking “well if they can’t come to Christ they must can’t accept Him so they must go to hell” then hearing how they would talk about “Jacob I loved Esau I hated” greatly bothered me the “good news” started to sound like bad news to me if you were not elected from eternity past and also your child may be in hell cause they can’t accept or reject Jesus?

Hey, not a catholic but just to steel man their position. I have talked to many Catholic theologians not just lay people that state limbo is not a dogmatic position and many will affirm that babies do go to heaven and nothing prevents a catholic from doing so. Some have stated that you need to be in unrepentant mortal sin to go to hell, babies do not have the ability to do this, therefore they cannot go to hell. I understand that may be different from what Augustine taught and maybe other early Catholics but as it is currently it seems Catholics do not have a dogmatic or infallible teaching on this and have liberty to believe all babies go to heaven.

Jesus is willing to suffer all the sins of mankind, All those that the Father send Him ( the marriage/ union) He will lose none, He will suffer any ones sin who has faith in Him ( grieving His Spirit) and not cast them out, To use an analogy - If one has a child and the child scratches a car intentionally , we would not cast our child out into the cold , because we love him or her we will pay for the damage and teach our child patiently because we love him or her, Jesus s payment would be His willingness to suffer for us, also Jesus redeemed mankind in this way - Imagine one is trying to grow the perfect white rose and we have failure after failure the one day the perfect white rose is created, this would make the whole project worthy and would redeem all future white roses as a worthwhile pursuit , thus Jesus redeemed mankind by being the only one to live up to Gods expectation of how one should live.

These trinitarians have no common sense arguments from scripture. They have a script of the same tired, faulty, individual interpretations of difficult passages from untaught philosophers. They ignore so much of the context of the even the new testament, not to mention the complete disregard of the old testament. They didn't start or end in it, to their own detriment.

Forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors. I think that pretty much sums it up.

I admire your patience in digging into this. I had come across one of his videos recently, but felt too much like he was trying to gaslight his listeners, it just seemed so preposterous. The points he does try to admit would have more validity if they were more nuanced and everything wasn't pushed to have an exaggerated meaning- and out of context too. If he's CoC it makes sense because their exegesis is notorious for this

Gal 4:9,10: "You’ve gone back to the observance of days, months, seasons, and years. Why are you turning back to those weak and sorry Jewish rules… Why do you want to become slaves to them once again?" Jesus set us free from the Curse of the law (Gal 3:10-13), but some slap Him in the face and REJECT HIS SACRIFICE. Gal 5: Christ will be of no value to you at all. 3Again I testify to every man who gets himself circumcised that he is obligated to obey the whole law. 4You who are trying to be justified by the law have been severed from Christ; you have fallen away from grace.

Like...I can't listen anymore...right? Like you people do a good job... like making a good scripture salad, like..right?

This woman can hardly speak English with "like", "like".

You waste our time telling us what your structure is going to be, what you are going to address, etc. How about just getting into those topics without wasted words all around the issue?

Get on with it man. You have spent 30 minutes rambling all around the issue and we have other things to do in life besides listening to your preamble.

I'm of the belief that present atonement works the same as in the OT (Christ is the high priest now).

Just a point of clarity. The word translated at mercy seat or atonement is simply the word for cover.

What is the connection of saints proving the assembly is worship as opposed to edification? Random rambling?

I fail to see how Ps 22 equates all those activities with prostration. It is quite a reaching argument.

Ekklesia is a generic term which requires qualification. The presenters seem to be making the same mistake Covenant Theology does in applying it as if it was a technical term. Their logic ends up making the Ephesian worshipers of Diana part of the Body of Christ as well as the 2 million? rebels in the wilderness.

The presenters are talking past Tom's point. I don't think Tom would disagree with most of what they are putting up as a critique.

If Tom makes the observation that latreuo is not in the description of the assembly, why are you forcing it on the assembly?

What did Paul say? I count this all as dung! Real Christianity is not religion and that is why it is a mistake to model it on Judaism.

The first hour should have been deleted.

C'mon Pastor..... you act like we all walk around every single second and think of God......even when I pray/petition the saints, which is seldom, or the Theotokos, which is more often, I never feel "distracted" from God. We are not Monks/Nuns....even then they think about eating or sleeping or working..... this Pastor is so extreme.

If there was one thing (of many) that I got out of this… the ends of modern Protestantism branches have extended so far from the main branch that sprouted from the tree… not to mention the roots of tree

If Jesus had “actual brothers” why are they not mentioned to be with Jesus and Mary at Golgotha ? If my brother was going to be executed or was on his deathbed… I would be by his side and be there to console my mother…… and if there were witnesses there they would give the account that I a sibling was there next to my brother and mother…. but we already have the accounts of the bible…. that there was his mother and another follower of Christ to whom Jesus said “Behold your mother”

In 2001 I went to Turkey and signed up for a bus tour to Ephesus. I went there for the ruins …. as we walked through the ruins the Turkish guide told us that nearby was a house where Mary lived ….. yes, Mary the mother of Jesus. I thought “Wow… is this true? Why would she be way out here living?” I just nodded my head like oh okay… and kept on about my business…. I couldn’t dismiss this statement because I learned as a teen reading and “studying” the bible, that not everything having to do with Church history was in the bible… there had to be more. And this was during my 3 years of high school when I was going to a Pentecostal church… So anyway yes, there is a history that the West knows very little about… even in this discussion as an ex-protestant I am learning that even the reformation founders believed so many things that modern Protestants do not. Thank you O-Most Holy Trinity, for bringing me to the know the history of the Church, answering my questions I had since my childhood, and bringing me to the one, holy, catholic, and apostolic Church. ☦️

History is a great thing is it not? I learned a lot from my Romanian wife especially about why the reformers believed vs what the current Protestant believe… and here Father Jonathan expands that discussion. I too learned history of the Church…. I couldn’t go back to believing Protestant teachings. ☦️

Protestants come into the picture in the 1500's 1600's 1700's 1800's 1900's 2000's .......there are 1500+ years of CHURCH history that Protestants don't know of..... or willfully resist what they learn about.

Very informative and helpful!! Thank you!!

Tom is right on Communion not being a sacrifice. Courtney is incorrect on the Lord's Supper being for the forgiveness of sin, it can be seen as a food offering, but not a scapegoat sacrifice. The original dead and resurrection was for the forgiveness of sin, not the celebration of the rememberence of that event

Courtney and Joshua made sense. To say that the early Christians did not proskeneo when gathering together it is absurd. Unfortunately the ortodox church has taken fervent prayer out of the church. You do a bunch of formalities and then listen to the preast repeatedly recite a bunch of memorized prayers.

I would say Chapter 16 has more literary connection with 2 Thessalonians 2 over Revelation although that doesn't make them apposed of course.

Excellent

That is a beautiful project. Well done.

Maybe make a condensed edit on this .I watched 30 minutes so far of nothingness and am out of here.

This is a longer response to @1Whipperin but also to anyone who finds Dr Wadsworth's thesis compelling of there being a "radical redefinition" of worship across the Old and New Testament. I think there is a lot more continuity than Dr Wadsworth acknowledges. * Living Sacrifices: we see living people described as sacrifices in Num 8, 31, and Isa 66 -- all using the same Hebrew words to describe animal sacrifices. This corresponds with the Pauline language of the same in Rom 12:1, 15:16 * Monetary tribute/tithe: these are described using sacrificial terms in Num 7, Exo 25, 30, 35, 36. This corresponds with the support for the "ministry" of the apostles which Paul encourages the <ekklesia> to give of their free will -- just as the <ekklesia> did so in the above passages. Paul calls these sacrifices in Phil 2:17 * Prayer/Fasting: Isa 58 describes the Day of Atonement fast and says that how God desires that to be done is almsgiving and justice to the poor. Both are described with Hebrew sacrificial terminology in Ps 141:2, Pro 15:8, and Isa 56. This corresponds to Anna giving <latreou> through prayer and fasting in Lk 2:37, or Cornelius' gifts of the same being sacrifices in Acts 10:4. In Rev 5:8, the prayers of the saints are described as bowls of incense. Jesus quotes Isa 56 and the Temple being a place of prayer when he cleanses it. * Singing/praise: this is connected to Temple worship also in 1 Chr 15-16, as well as the Psalms of Ascent (120-134) and Miriam's Song of the Sea in Exo 15. Singing or otherwise praising God is described in sacrificial language in Ps 19:14, 99:2, 119:108 and Hos 14:2 as well as 2 Chr 29:13-14, and also in Jonah's prayer from the belly of the fish (2:9). This corresponds to Eph 5:19/Col 3:16, where songs, hymns, and spiritual songs being done simultaneously "to one another" and "to the Lord", and as <eucharisteo>, the same word that Jesus does when he institutes the Lord's Supper. Heb 13:16 quotes a mashup of Ps 119:108 and Hos 14:2 to describe sacrifices with which God is well-pleased. * Confession/repentance: The core of the prophetic critique of sacrifices was not that literal/physical sacrifices or formalized/ceremonial Temple rituals weren't desired in and of themselves. It was that these were inefficacious *apart from* the internal and/or covenantal condition of the worshipper (eg, Lev 26:31) -- characterized by a "broken and contrite heart" (Ps 51) and accompanied by acts of justice and mercy (Hos 6, Mic 6, Isa 1, Amo 5). This challenges Dr Wadsworth's thesis that there was a shift or "redefinition" from the external to the internal. Furthermore, these critiques of the internal devotion of the people also implicated songs (Amo 5:23), prayer (Isa 1:15), as well as fasting (Isa 58, Jer 14:12). In these same critiques, literal/physical sacrifices are affirmed both in the old covenant (Ps 51:19) and in the new covenant at Messianic Zion (Isa 19:21, 56:7). Similarly, 1 Jn 1:7-2:2 tells us that we receive atonement the same way the Old Covenant sacrifices did: through confession and cleansing/purifying blood, accompanied by a life of repentance. There is a fast-growing contingent of "post-supercessionist" scholars, building off of the insights gained from the New Perspective on Paul after the discovery of the Dead Sea Scrolls changed our Reformation-based understanding of second Temple Judaism. Matthew Thomas has done an excellent survey of early (2nd century) patristic language about "works of the law" which reinforces that this view is not "new" but old and being rediscovered. David Moffitt has written a superb series of monographs, articles, and a book which examines the cultic logic of Hebrews. I agree with him and these scholars that the usage of cultic terminology in the New Testament is not a "radical redefinition" of the old, but a transfiguration of it that retains continuity (much like Paul's seed/tree metaphor in 1 Cor 15). All the seeming polemic language actually is directed toward *one form* of ritual/cultic worship, not ritual/cultic worship itself. That is why we see both the sharpest polemic and the greatest concentration of cultic language in one epistle: Hebrews. Dr Wadsworth's thesis relies on a presumption of discontinuity, and then discounts a myriad of NT cultic language as "metaphorical". IMO, this is both begging the question of discontinuity and displays a puzzling lack of familiarity with the Old Testament/covenant worship forms that he is claiming are "unquestionably" ended. To my knowledge, he has not engaged with the scholarship cited above, which is also puzzling for an academic.

I don't know how Luis composed himself seeing David's responses. He was too nice. David was clearly trying to avoid answering Luis's questions because he knew he would have had to concede to his arguments. I am Orthodox and I just can't believe that we are sitting here this day and age arguing with a man-made religion that was started by 1500 years later.

REAL 'Christianity' is 'NOT' a; ,,, 'Spectator' Sport !!! ~~~ :o ~~~ “If Any man Desires to come after ME, Let him DENY ‘himself’ (REPENT), AND take up his Cross ‘D-A-I-L-Y’ and Follow ‘ME’.” ~ JESUS CHRIST ~ (St Luke 9:23) ~~~ “And he that taketh NOT his cross, And Followeth after Me is ‘N-O-T’ WORTHY of ME.” ~ JESUS CHRIST ~ (St Matthew 10:38) ~~~ “S-T-R-I-V-E To Enter in At the ‘Narrow’ gate: For ‘M-A-N-Y’, I say unto you, ‘Will’ Seek to enter in, and Shall ‘N-O-T’ be able.” ~ JESUS CHRIST ~ (St Luke 13:24) ~~~ :o ~~~ For the First ~300 Years, Christianity WAS; ,,, 100% 'Participation' !!! ~~~ :) ~~~ From Constantine ONWARD, with the Advent of 'Official' Church BUILDINGS/IDOLS/IDOLATRY/Fake Hierarchy; ~~~ FORMER 100% 'Participation' Was REDUCED 'Down',,, To 1%,,, !!! ~~~ What it is unto 'Today' !!! ~~~ :o ~~~ The GREAT 'Commission',,, is Become The GREAT 'O' Mission !!! ~~~ (SIN of OMISSION) ~~~ :o ~~~ “The ‘Default System’ in Christianity Today ‘N-E-V-E-R’ makes people Disciples of JESUS.” ~ Dallas Willard ~~~ “The ‘Default System’ is the idea that you can be a ‘Christian’ Without being a Disciple.” ~ Dallas Willard ~~~ :o

'MERE' Christianity ???,,, is a 'Spectator' Event ONLY !!! ~~~ :o ~~~ THIS is 'What HAPPENED'; ,,, To the REAL 'Christianity', of the 'Early' Assemblies !!! ~~~ :o ~~~ 100% 'Participation' During the 'First 300 Years',,, ~~~ THEN 1 % 'Participation' FROM Constantine (Church BUILDINGS/Fake Hierarchy) 'ONWARD' !!! ~~~ :o ~~~ "W-H-A-T ??? Know ye NOT that Your BODY ‘IS’ the Temple Of The Holy Spirit, Which IS 'IN' YOU, Which ye have of GOD, And ye are NOT your 'Own' ???" ~ Apostle Paul ~ (1 Cor 6:19) ~~~ "And what ‘agreement’ hath The Temple of GOD With ‘IDOLS’ ??? For You 'A-R-E' The Temple of The ‘Living’ GOD: As GOD hath Said; I WILL DWELL ‘I-N’ THEM, AND WALK ‘I-N’ THEM; AND I WILL BE THEIR GOD, AND THEY SHALL BE MY PEOPLE." ~ Apostle Paul ~ (2 Cor 6:16) ~~~ :)

I normally don’t have a hard time following these types of discussions, but I’m not sure what Dr. Wadsworth is ultimately trying to say. If anyone understood, can someone please explain it to me?

This video reiterates the reason why your first video was premature, unethical and unfair to Dr. Wadsworth. It's a rather important prerequisite in a "push back" video or a critical video, to first have made sure you understand what the proponent is arguing. Clearly that was not the case for your first 3hour (!) long video, you guys clearly did not understand competently what you were so confidently critiquing. Courtney, with respect, your personal experience has no relevance to the topic. What Christians have done from about the 3rd century AD onwards has no relevance to the discussion of the content of Dr. Wadsworth's thesis. Dr. Wadsworth is talking about biblical texts, culture in the first century and Greek words. He is PhD scholar who has had his dissertation supervised by other biblical scholars. I would find it so distracting and offensive that you're trying to prepare your come back while he is addressing your point. It's clearly showing me you have the wrong attitude here. I've been watching for over an hour, and you guys have gotten nowhere really. Everything here is just coming to terms. Going over and over the same ground.

1:07:29 If Jesus is cleansing the whole world in multiple ways why argue so dogmatically that Christus Victor is contrary to substitutionary atonement and that ritual purity is the only role of Levitical sacrifices? As far as I'm aware the majority of PSA advocates have no objection to these ideas in and of themselves it's just not seen as the whole picture.

It is Him who justified not who pardoned.

To worship in "spirit and in truth" (John 4:23-24) involves a deep, genuine worship that is both heartfelt and aligned with reality in its broadest sense. This concept goes beyond outward rituals or religious formalities, calling for a worship that is authentic and rooted in the full spectrum of truth-spiritual, moral, intellectual, and experiential. 1. Worship in Spirit: This means worshiping with the inner being, engaging one’s emotions, desires, and will, in connection with God. It involves a spiritual communion that transcends physical actions, places, or rituals. It’s about an internal, personal experience with God that is led by the Holy Spirit (Romans 8:26). Worship in spirit is dynamic, passionate, and not bound by external forms. 2. Worship in Truth: In the broadest sense, truth encompasses more than just scriptural accuracy-it includes all that is real, factual, and aligned with God's design for the world. To worship in truth means to recognize God’s nature and character as He has revealed Himself, but also to live in alignment with moral truth, intellectual honesty, and reality itself. It rejects hypocrisy, falsehood, or any form of deception, requiring a life that harmonizes with God’s truth in every aspect-spiritual, ethical, and intellectual (Philippians 4:8). 3. Beyond Ritual and Formality: Jesus emphasized that worship is not confined to specific locations (such as Jerusalem or Samaria) but transcends space and structure. It is a way of living, marked by sincerity, reverence, and alignment with the broad truths of who God is, how He made the world, and how we are to live within it. Worship in spirit and in truth, therefore, calls believers to offer God not only their emotions and spiritual devotion but also their intellect and actions. It involves worshiping with integrity, ensuring that every part of one’s life-heart, mind, and deeds-reflects the truth of God’s creation, morality, and grace. Truth-focused worship is indeed our living sacrifice, as described in Romans 12:1-2, where believers are urged to present their bodies as a "living sacrifice, holy and acceptable to God." This form of worship involves offering every aspect of our lives to God in alignment with His truth, and it manifests in practical, everyday choices and actions. Some examples of living sacrifices include: Moral Integrity Living truth-focused worship means making choices that reflect God’s moral standards. For instance, choosing honesty and integrity in the workplace, even when it is inconvenient or costly, is an example of living in truth and offering oneself to God. Loving Others Selflessly: A living sacrifice includes selflessly serving others, following the example of Jesus. Acts of kindness, caring for the poor, and loving one’s enemies are ways we worship God by reflecting His truth in our relationships. Submission to God's Will Just as Jesus prayed, “Not my will, but Yours be done” (Luke 22:42), surrendering our own desires and ambitions to follow God’s calling is a profound form of worship. Whether it means accepting difficult tasks, making sacrifices for one’s family, or giving up personal comforts for the sake of ministry, such obedience is a living sacrifice. Pursuing Personal Transformation Romans 12:2 urges us not to conform to this world but to be transformed by the renewing of our minds. This ongoing process of allowing God’s truth to reshape our thinking and behavior is itself a living sacrifice, as it demands constant submission to His guidance. In each of these examples, worship is not confined to church services or moments of prayer but extends to every decision, relationship, and action. It is a daily offering of ourselves-our bodies, minds, and hearts-back to God in alignment with His truth. This is what it means to live as a “living sacrifice,” and in doing so, we embody true worship in spirit and in truth.

Very respectful and Edifying discussion. This is how Christians must behave. God bless you all.

Christianity can live with out water baptism and lord's supper. Christianity must be understood in spiritual way only. Let's ask this question if a Christian didn't baptize in water and didn't participate in lord's supper , is he committing a sin? If we answer yes, I think we didn't understand the new testament. We are baptized with the Holy Spirit the moment we believe in the gospel, to be in Christ. then the eating and drinking refers to seeing your self in Chris,the renewal of your mind. as Christians we eat together in order to celebrate our triumph in Christ and to show that we are one body. But as I can see , baptism and lord's supper are making more harm than good in Christianity and are becoming a source of division. My take is ,we are 100% Christians with out them both , we are born again spiritually from the Word and Spirit. This two, so-called sacraments becomes ritualistic and displaced our spiritual nature in to mere carnal religious entities. No wonder then that Christianity loosing its appeal. But for Dr Tom, be strong and continue fighting this good fight for the once and for all sacrifice on the cross. Jesus is enough with out any sacraments. Togetherness, whether we eat and don't eat, whether we sank in water filled tub, or not. What matters is, to be in Christ and be at ease to each other. Let's keep it simple and natural with out ritualistic additions which draws much of our energy (what a wastage).

The argument (1:30:52) presented about metaphor theory and the continuity between Old Testament sacrifices and New Testament worship is grounded in some serious misunderstandings about the New Testament's radical redefinition of worship. While it’s true that metaphors can extend from concrete realities, the New Testament writers, especially Paul, consistently redefined Old Testament practices and symbols in ways that transcend their original meaning. Let’s break this down clearly and refute the main points: 1. Paul’s Use of "Living Sacrifices" Radically Transforms the Concept When Paul talks about offering our bodies as "living sacrifices" in Romans 12:1, he’s not just metaphorically extending the concept of Old Testament sacrifices into a new Christian reality. He’s fundamentally redefining what sacrifice means. Old Testament sacrifices were physical, bloody, and tied to the ritual system of atonement for sin. Paul, however, is calling for a spiritual, ongoing, personal dedication to God-not a continuation of the old sacrificial system, but a complete transformation of it. In Hebrews 10:12-14, the author states that Jesus' sacrifice was a once and for all atonement, putting an end to the need for further sacrifices. The shift from dead animal sacrifices to living personal sacrifices indicates a profound discontinuity with the Old Testament practice. Paul’s metaphor is not grounded in preserving the old system but in emphasizing a new kind of devotion that has nothing to do with the ritual slaughter of animals or physical offerings. 2. The New Testament Asserts a Break from Old Covenant Worship The argument that the worshiping congregation of Israel continues uninterrupted into the New Testament church misunderstands a key theme in the New Testament-the establishment of a New Covenant that supersedes the Old. Hebrews 8:13 states clearly, "By calling this covenant ‘new,’ he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear." Jesus’ death on the cross did not extend Old Testament temple sacrifices but rendered them unnecessary. Worship in the New Testament is defined by Jesus' once-for-all sacrifice, not by continuing the old sacrificial system in metaphorical form. In fact, John 4:21-24, where Jesus tells the Samaritan woman that worship will no longer be tied to specific places (like Jerusalem or Mount Gerizim), demonstrates that the old ways of worship are being entirely replaced by worship "in spirit and in truth." There is no ongoing temple, no physical altar, and no continuation of the Old Covenant worship framework. 3. The Ecclesia is Not Merely an Extension of Israel While it’s true that Gentiles are "grafted in" to the people of God (Romans 11:17), the New Testament reveals a distinct reality called *the Church." The "Ecclesia" (church) is not simply a continuation of Old Testament Israel, but rather a new community formed through the death and resurrection of Christ, bringing together both Jews and Gentiles into one body (Ephesians 2:14-16). Paul clearly distinguishes between Israel according to the flesh and the new people of God in Christ. Galatians 6:15-16 explicitly says that "neither circumcision nor uncircumcision means anything; what counts is the new creation." The argument here tries to flatten the distinction between Israel and the Church, failing to recognize the newness of the Church as the body of Christ, formed not by ethnic or ritual boundaries, but by faith in Jesus and the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. 4. Metaphors in the New Testament Often Mark Discontinuity, Not Continuity While metaphor theory might suggest that metaphors extend from concrete realities, biblical metaphors often signify transformation or fulfillment, not simple extension. When Jesus refers to Himself as the "Lamb of God" (John 1:29), this doesn’t mean that He is just another sacrificial lamb in the Levitical system; it means that He fulfills and completes that entire system, rendering it obsolete. Likewise, when Paul speaks of "living sacrifices," he is drawing on sacrificial imagery but redefining it in the context of Christian discipleship, not in continuity with the old sacrificial system. The suggestion that metaphors merely extend the old into the new without significant change overlooks the fact that New Testament metaphors often signal the arrival of something radically new-something that fulfills and thus *transforms* the old, rather than simply extending it. 5. The New Testament Church Worships in Spirit and Truth, Not Through Rituals and Sacrifices The New Testament repeatedly makes it clear that Christian worship is not bound by ritual, sacrifice, or location. Jesus’ statement in John 4 that “the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth” indicates a fundamental break from Old Testament forms of worship. The physical sacrifices and temple rituals of the Old Testament are replaced by a spiritual relationship with God, based on the Holy Spirit’s indwelling presence and the truth of the gospel. The idea that worship continues as a metaphorical extension of Old Testament sacrifices ignores this key theological shift. The argument that New Testament worship is merely a metaphorical extension of Old Testament sacrifices is misguided. Paul and the other New Testament writers are clear that worship in the New Covenant is radically different from the Old Testament system. The sacrificial system has been fulfilled and ended in Christ, and worship is now defined as spiritual, Christ-centered, and freed from the rituals of the Old Covenant. The Church is a new creation, not a continuation of Old Testament Israel, and its worship is based on the finished work of Christ, not on extending old sacrifices into a metaphorical Christian reality.

Jesus’ Statement on Worship: The conversation between Jesus and the Samaritan woman in John 4 is not about legitimizing multiple worship sites or "cultic" practices, but rather about the shift from external, location-based worship to internal, spiritual worship. Jesus explicitly declares that a time is coming when people will not worship in Jerusalem or on Mount Gerizim but will worship the Father in spirit and truth (John 4:21-24). This was a profound break from the Old Testament system of temple-based worship. Jesus is pointing to a new reality where worship is no longer tied to geography or physical rituals but is rooted in a heart relationship with God. For example: Orthodox worship, with its elaborate rituals, ornate buildings, and liturgical traditions, has no basis in the New Testament or the biblical definition of worship laid out by Jesus and the apostles. 1. Worship is not tied to physical locations or rituals In John 4:21-24, Jesus makes it clear that true worship is no longer confined to specific places or practices. He says, “A time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and in truth.” Jesus explicitly rejected the idea of worship tied to holy places-whether it was Jerusalem, Mount Gerizim, or any physical location. In contrast, Orthodox worship centers around church buildings and physical spaces, which contradicts Jesus’ declaration that God is spirit and true worship transcends location. 2. True worship is in Spirit and Truth, not external rituals The New Testament defines worship as something deeply spiritual, rooted in truth. Jesus emphasized that true worshipers are those who worship in "spirit and truth", not through rituals or elaborate ceremonies. The Orthodox tradition, with its formalized prayers, icons, incense, and repetitive rituals, focuses on outward forms rather than the spiritual heart of worship. The Bible makes it clear that worship should not be about external ceremonies but about an inner relationship with God. Colossians 2:16-17 warns against being caught up in rituals and practices that are merely a “shadow of the things to come.” True worship in the New Testament is a spiritual act of devotion to God, not tied to physical expressions. 3. New Testament worship is simple, heartfelt, and communal The early Church, as described in Acts and the epistles, worshiped in spirit and in truth through simple gatherings centered on prayer, the Word, and the breaking of bread (Acts 2:42). There is no evidence in the New Testament of complex rituals or ceremonial acts like those practiced in Orthodox churches. Worship was primarily a community of believers gathering in homes, praying, singing hymns, and encouraging one another in the faith (Ephesians 5:19). Orthodox worship, with its highly structured liturgies, processions, and formalities, has no foundation in the simple, spirit-led worship described in the New Testament. 4. Worship is a lifestyle, not a liturgical performance Romans 12:1 defines worship as offering our bodies as a “living sacrifice, holy and pleasing to God-this is your true and proper worship.” Paul describes worship as something lived out in every aspect of life, not a set of formal rituals performed in a church building. The New Testament portrays worship as an ongoing relationship with God that extends beyond formal gatherings and encompasses every part of our lives. Orthodox worship, with its rigid structure, emphasizes liturgical performance rather than the New Testament’s teaching that worship is about daily submission to God’s will and living by the Spirit. 5. No New Testament support for veneration of icons and saints Orthodox worship also involves practices like the veneration of icons and prayers to saints, which have no basis in the New Testament. The Bible explicitly teaches that there is “one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus” (1 Timothy 2:5). The practice of venerating icons and seeking the intercession of saints directly contradicts the New Testament’s focus on Christ as the sole mediator and focus of our worship. Nowhere in the New Testament do we see believers praying to saints or venerating images. These practices are later additions and deviations from biblical worship in spirit and in truth. Orthodox worship, with its reliance on tradition, physical rituals, and external ceremonies, stands in stark contrast to the New Testament’s definition of worship in spirit and in truth. Jesus and the apostles made it clear that true worship is done in spirit and truth, not through complex rituals or sacred spaces. The New Testament presents a model of worship that is simple, sincere, and focused on a personal relationship with God through Christ. Orthodox worship, by focusing on external forms, not only lacks a biblical foundation but also obscures the true essence of worship as taught by Jesus.

“And ‘as they did eat’, Jesus took bread, and blessed, And brake it, and gave it to them, and said; ‘Take, eat; This is My body.” ~ JESUS CHRIST ~ (St Mark 14:22) ~~~ JESUS 'IS' GOD's 'Once and For ALL',,, 'Sacrifice' !!! ~~~ And 'Now' we Must 'Feed' Off of (Learn From/Abide IN) HIM/JESUS !!! ~~~ “I have ‘Food’ to eat which you know NOTHING about !!!” ~ JESUS CHRIST ~ (St John 4:32)(Spiritual 'Food') ~~~ :o ~~~ JESUS and Apostle Paul said; ,,, "As 'Often' as you DO this",,, ~~~ (The Lord's SUPPER) ~~~ This is NOT the 'Annual Passover', or 'Annual' feast of Un-leavened bread; ~~~ Done 'ONLY' Once/Year,,, ~~~ This CAN Be Done; ,,, 'Several' Times/Week !!! ~~~ (WHERE Are our "Christian" Priorities, at the Top, or Bottom of our List ???) ~~~ ALL Done unto Edifying in 'Remembrance' of our Wonderful 'ALL in ALL'; ,,, JESUS CHRIST !!! ~~~ :) ~~~ “I CAN DO ALL Things ‘through’ CHRIST Which 'Strengthens' me.” ~ Apostle Paul ~ (Phil 4:13) ~~~ :)

Very interesting chat!! 👍👍

The closer was the bomb!!!