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Meh. It was only like 7:30. It just gets dark here by 5 now that daylight savings is over. And I still wouldn't have felt bad at 10pm because they had their 100% leaf blower powered yard crew over in the morning, then guests over in their back yard so I had to listen to whiny toddlers/very small children all afternoon. 😛

At 4:00 of this video, I provide a pretty detailed explanation of why and how to drill the float passage. Let me know what questions it didn't answer and I'll do my best to explain further.

I'm glad it helped you out! 😃

It's not that simple. I have a whole bunch of video I shot when I was building the motor that talks about a lot of this but haven't edited together yet, so hang tight for that. 😀 If you mean, "If I just bolted an M1XL onto an otherwise stock set of cases, would it have higher port timings than a BGM 177 or VMC 177 or Malossi 177?" And my answer is, "If you're doing that, save your money and buy a VMC SuperG. It won't hurt so much when you blow it up, which we all tend to do a lot of early in our tuning lives." Port timing is largely determined by how you set the cylinder up rather than the cylinder itself. While some cylinders are designed to operate better at higher or lower port timings (the tradeoff between torque/broader power band and peak HP), there's always a range each cylinder performs best in. Performance is also heavily influenced by proper matching of the rest of the parts in the build, especially the exhaust, crankshaft, and intake. The M1XL doesn't have to deal with intake timings, but there's still a lot that needs to be done (cleaning up the intake manifold and reed block, plus potentially even raising and widening the exhaust, which produces power at the cost of noise level and lifespan), even with the parts that come in the kit. So the more nuanced answer is...the M1XL is designed to operate optimally in higher rev ranges, and port timing is a function of the point in the RPM curve where the motor will produce peak power, but that performance is determined by both the port timing range and also proper choice of exhaust, carb, and reeds. Quattrini have a matching exhaust, if you want to go that route, but it's not strictly necessary, especially not for a largeframe where exhaust options abound. Anyways...the first thing you're going to need is the ability to *adjust* port timings. You can do this two ways. You either grind the ports on the cylinder to raise them (the old school way and also a great way to ruin the jug before you ever put it on the bike. Been there; done that.) or you can install a 60mm stroke crank, which allows you to add base and head spacers. That will probably get you where you need to be, because it gives you a 3mm range, but also may put you in a situation where your squish band is too wide, meaning that you have to have the cylinder or head decked down by a machine shop. For my build, the timings are relatively aggressive for a box exhaust, but not for a track pipe. Since this isn't a track bike, though, that's fine by me. I'm happy to trade a little bit of power for less noise--I have my smallframe if I want REALLY fast. My timings are set at 125 Transfer Duration (TD) / 175 Exhaust Duration (ED) and 24 Blowdown (BD) and my Squish at 1.2mm with no head spacer. I also am running a P200 crank, so a 110mm rather than 105mm conn rod. Lots and lots of measuring and gasket work to get to that. It revs on the stand to 11,750 RPM's and I've had it up past 8,000 RPM's in 4th gear on a test run, so over 80 MPH. Another tuner I know did a bolt-on of the kit to an otherwise stock motor and said he got 73 MPH top speed with it with a 30mm carb and a PipeDesign Bullet exhaust, so even the best bolt-on comparison I can reference is a lot more than stock. After he re-worked it, added the long-stroke crank, etc., he saw 82 MPH. That's with stock PX150 gearing, I believe, but a 9 MPH gain. My gearing is 22/65, so a little longer, but we're in the same ballpark with each other, I think. If you want to get into the weeds on the build, I documented it pretty well over on Modern Vespa, starting here: modernvespa.com/forum/topic173453.15#2707520

@@ChandlerHowell-VespaGreat explanation, Chandlerman thank you!

@@SuperMonik You're welcome! I'm always happy to clarify these things. 😀

I'm running a Polini PWK 34, same carb as I have on my Lammy. I did a LOT of grinding to clean up the intake manifold for it. I still may fabricate my own intake manifold, though. The jury is still out on that one.

We've all been there! I tend to run on reserve all the time and now have a massive (17L) touring tank in my Lammy. Until then, I did what I do with the rest of my bikes and carried a liter buddy can so I can always get to the next gas station.

@@ChandlerHowell-Vespa i also have a long range tank. 🤣 It look very clean inside when i looked.

@@Zacky12345 Agreed, it looks really good in there. I miss the toolbox, but have added a tray inside the left hand cowl to make up. Better storage, especially for a bottle of 2t oil, but a lot less convenient.

Why does it look more like a Vespa?.

@@esseker6320 It's a 1973 Vespa GL. I do both Vespa's and Lambretta's.

I like a little more accuracy than "hand on the panel" at 70 MPH. 🤣 For lights, I'm all DC/LED andI run a JW Speaker headlight that puts any BA20D reflector bulb to shame. I have the "stock" Quattrini reed that came with the TV210. I've considered picking up a VForce3, but just don't quite see the need right now.

@@ChandlerHowell-Vespa

It was a great time! 🤪

I definitely have spent a lot more time getting it to a satisfactory state than I ever have with a Vespa. This scoot had a lot of deferred maintenance, too, and I'm still not entirely caught up. Since I made this video, the exhaust spigot snapped off while riding (luckily, I found that) and when I pulled the exhaust to deal with a stripped case stud, I found that one of the 11mm tabs at the front of the exhaust had also cracked off. I really like the Gori from a performance perspective, but the overall quality of it is pretty crap--definitely not up to the cost of the pipe.

Thanks! You can get a float needle from any carb or scooter parts house. In the USA, I prefer www.scootermercato.com . Elsewhere, I like the two big German suppliers, sip-scootershop.com and scooter-center.com .

@@ChandlerHowell-Vespa thank you so much for the information

Thanks! I converted my electrical system to all-DC when I installed the new ignition, so I didn't have to find AC LED's. You can find AC LED's, but you'll have to use housings that take an external bulb and then replace the existing bulb.

Cheers

I have an RTD led headlamp which comes with its own inline rectifier. So i have ordered another one and will feed in AC left and right power from the switch instead of high and low beam and feed out to left and right leads as DC. Let me see how that goes😊

@@Hisothailand-l6y in your situation, I think I'd just put a rectifier between the junction box and the blinker unit back under the cowl or inside the tank cavity or wherever you (plan to) put it

It's really only necessary on tuned motors. The float passage only becomes a blocker when you're dealing with larger main jets. If you're having fuel starvation issues like this on a stock motor, it most likely means you have a blockage or bend in your fuel line.

As an addition I have had talks with 125 px owners saying that the fuel passage is too narrow as stock and drilling out the px SI carb. was helpful. I dont know if this is true for all SI carbs. but there is a feeling that the manufacturing process for some si carbs doesnt creat a wide enough passage for the fuel.

@@ryanseddon4800 Unmodified, the float passage is only capable of keeping up to about a 125 main jet. I've never seen a carb that couldn't keep up with stock jets, but it's definitely something to modify on tuned bikes. SIP sell an SI carb with the entire fuel path opened up, but that's what I was running and had to modify when I made this video, so take that for whatever it's worth.

Correcto

Either the float is stuck or something has blocked a jet. Start with the jets because it's easier. Remove and separate the main jet stack into Air Corrector/Atomizer/Main, then clean all the parts among them. If that doesn't work, remove the float cover and make sure the float moves freely.

@@ChandlerHowell-Vespa ok thanks brother🙏

Luckily, it's four humid months since then and no signs of problems so far. That OG Vespa paint is TOUGH. I generally do try to avoid grinding or sanding inside the workshop, but that's so I don't make a mess in there.

The new "pedana" doesn't fit the old "scudo", is 2 or more cm smaller each side, so probably is not the right one for that vespa model.

This motor probably could do 100 kmh, but I never tested it. The motor that's in it now has done 103 kmh, and that's with 10" gearing on a 8" wheel.

Perhaps, but would also have added a TON of additional butt welding, which I'm pretty bad at. Plus I'd have needed new, wider cross braces and the whole thing would have spun out of control pretty quickly.

I'm fitting a new complete legshield to a 1960's Douglas Vespa 150 Sportique I myself have some problems mostly surface rust in the frame tunnel I'll be doing that at some stage

@@regd.2263 Keeping the metal from pulling back when welding was brutal. I need to get a TIG setup if I'm going to be doing much more sheet metal work. It would be pretty handy for working on cases, too. The spool gun MIG only gets me so far.

@@regd.2263 That rust would have to be pretty bad before I'd cut open the tunnel. You can do a LOT with flexible brushes and spraying ospho, then shooting self-etching primer in there. No welding required. That's how I handled it on my GL.

First thing I'd check is that you don't have a blocked fuel tank breather. Loosen the tank cap and see if you get fuel flow then. If the breather gets blocked, it's like putting your finger on the top of a straw and it'll prevent fuel from flowing out of the tank. If that's the case, it's a tiny hole in the gas cap that you just need to clean out with a pick or tiny drill bit. Next, check if fuel is getting through the line. Loosen the banjo bolt (see 3:17) and make sure fuel leaks out into the airbox. If it does, you probably have a stuck float. If it doesn't, you have a pinched fuel line, a blocked fuel line, or the fuel tap is clogged. Most likely, it's going to be a pinched or maybe vapor-locked fuel line. You don't need to do anything like in this other video, but I explain the basic problem: ruclips.net/video/Qi-RLklzWJQ/видео.html Reply back and lemme know what you find to start. Also, did you do anything in particular that might have changed the fuel line or carb prior to the issue?

@@ChandlerHowell-Vespa the previous owner took out the gas tank fuel filter so we just ran the fuel line directly from the peacock to the bango

Thanks for your help

@@davidelcess6559 That's the "correct" way to do it since there's a fuel filter built into the float bowl. The fuel line should be 24" long and run so there are no overhead loops that could form a vapor lock. I had the fuel line slide back and get pinched by the oil tank in my Sprint a few weeks ago. Frustrating to have happen, but an easy fix.

@@ChandlerHowell-Vespa 🙏 we have successfully put it back together and it runs great.. this 74 only had 6 k miles on it but it was sitting up for years.. Thanks again for your input.. I guess the carburetor was clogged up.

I'm always interested in comparing notes on projects and techniques! I got the pliers in that video of the GL from another scooterist I know out in California, who got them from a mutual connection in Seattle. I've since sent them on to another friend and made my own set when I did the Smallstate. You can buy them now, too, but they're like $60, so not worth the price if you have the ability to make your own. I have a bunch of video I shot but didn't edit up for whatever reason. I may have to go back through and see what's worth editing up now that the Smallstate (which has since been re-named the Boo-Badge) is in a stable state and I'm moving on to the next projects. (I just realized I have three in the pipeline, all very different from my usual work!)

I just remembered that I did the legshield edge video when I was re-fixing the GL ruclips.net/video/PCRROo3iYck/видео.html . That's probably why I wound up not doing it for the Smallstate, even though it needed it even more.

The beauty of urethane is that so long as you put it on thick enough, you can sand away all your painting mistakes 🤣

I actually made exactly that when I was doing the Smallframe :D I made mine out of a pair of old vice grips and was able to press in an entire new edge to match up the floorboard with the legshield, because the only replacement floorboard I could get didn't quite match. I thought I'd done a video about fixing that legshield-to-floorboard edge. I must've never finished it, but should dig it out, I'm thinking.

I don't know enough about it to have an opinion, but I have a ton of respect for everything BFA I've seen, so no reason to doubt it's a quality piece of kit. Longer stroke, seems like the drag racers like it. It makes my motor look cheap, cost-wise. 😂I think a better comparison would be to an M200S, which is similar cost and 44 HP. My first ML160S build used a 54mm crank and turned 13,500 RPM's. The 51mm quattrini crank only turns about 11,500, but at least it hasn't blown up yet. Both of them come on the power dangerously fast--I'm 230 lbs and have to lean way forward to keep the wheel down even in third gear when it hits the pipe.

it should be 14.7:1 for ideal stoichiometric efficiency and 12.7:1 for maximum power.

Thanks, man! I'm going to be back in Laguna Hills on Thursday. It's ROM this weekend. You going to make it up there this year?

Si no supiera que la ingesta es buena, estaría de acuerdo, pero fue buena tanto antes como después de reemplazar la aguja del flotador.

I haven't, but have the original 2-port motor from my VBB that would be a good candidate for it. Plus, I could put a spare 3-port on it since I raised the exhaust port too high on the current cylinder and ruined it. That will be a great mini-project for after the Smallstate is back together. Thanks for the suggestion!

Where's here? Smallies are not more expensive here in the USA, just harder to find good project bikes.

@@ChandlerHowell-Vespa in Indonesia, the price is around $3,214 :D how about there? .. 10 years ago the prices were still very cheap! i bought Super 66 for only $282.91 in 2012 in original condition and smallies were around $500. But sadly, smallies weren't popular back in the days so I didn't decide to have it.

@@xperimental1974 I paid about $1500 for my Smallie two years ago, but it was in really rough shape when I got it. Bad rattle can spray paint job, so not even original paint. A nice one usually goes for about $2,500 to $3,500 these days, if you can even find one.

@@ChandlerHowell-Vespa oh yea almost same price.. any idea which one is better in general, M1L-60-S or GTR?

@@SuperMonik The M1L-60-S is the fastest 144. 33 HP is the rated output. the 60-S and 200-S were both re-worked with flow modeling software to optimize their performance. The M200-S is 44 HP! Maybe I'll build a 200-S eventually, but this one already does over 90 MPH and goes over 70 MPH in 3rd gear! 😅

There is not a floorboard that properly fits the smallstate, so be aware before you start cutting. I'm going to try and get creative to make mine work, but worst case scenario, I'll wind up replacing the entire floorboard and legshield.

Thanks! I already have more video to edit, plus more to do, so lots more to come. I'd love to do an ET3 some day What all are you doing to it?

Doh! Some days I can't win. This'll teach me to do multi-track editing without checking sound on every clip. *facepalm* The first video, I'd muted an entire track, but forgot I'd done it because I'm using the sound of a different track halfway through. And all of this is distracting from getting NEW videos edited, plus making actual workshop progress. Thanks for letting me know!

It will always spit back a little bit at idle because there's not enough air draw to atomize the fuel. if you have an air filter on the carb, it will catch a lot of it, but reduces the airflow, so you can't reach the same peak RPM's. The 24/24 carb makes the low speed spitback a little worse than a 20/20 would, because the air draw is even slower because of the greater diameter. When the needle is bad, though, the amount of fuel leaking through increases so the messy low speed intake becomes much more pronounced and causes the flooding/stalling condition. The paper towel test is the true measure of whether the float or needle are leaking.

Thanks for the feedback! I never know how long is enough vs. too long. It's a fantastic little scoot, only thing I don't like is that it's incredibly LOUD, but that's the price you pay for stupid-fast motors.

Getting that retaining ring clip back in without loads of blood, misery, and profanity is a state secret... And even I don't know it!

Malossi, Quattrini, et al. are parts makers, though they may make most of the parts you would need to build a high performance motor. Actually building a motor that gets maximum performance out of those parts is something you can work on for years and still have room for improvement. For example, the first build of this motor used stock VMA1T cases, which I machined out to fit a 54mm Mazzucelli crankshaft along with the M1L60S and the matching Quattrinini M3 exhaust. I started with an egig one-finger clutch, but it wasn't strong enough and wound up with a falc racing fb-45 clutch. Similarly, I wound up going from a PWK34 to a PWK36 carb to be able to move enough air at high RPM's. That, in turn, increased the red line from 11k to 13k. That motor died when the connecting rod of the crankshaft shattered into three pieces--ironically while cruising sedately at about 35 MPH--and destroyed the top end, crank, and cases. If you really want to start building tuned motors, the first step is to learn to rebuild stock-ish motors. If you can't tear down and reassemble a motor so that it's air tight and matches specs that you chose, then you can throw all the money you want to at performance parts and you still won't get a fast motor, or even a running motor. If you're not on there already, come over the the Not-so-Modern section of modernvespa.com . There's a great community of folks (including myself) who do everything from stock rebuilds to hardcore tuning and everything in between. It'll give you an idea of what you're potentially getting into (money and pain, initially), but also people who are more than happy to answer questions, provide guidance, and get you headed in a successful direction. And as to stock power delivery on large frames...I have a few of those that might change your mind as well. The motor in my GL is built on 150cc LML cases, puts out about 26 HP, redlines at about 10,000 RPM's, and has an incredibly wide power band. There are folks doing 50-70 HP builds on largeframes these days, plus the torque that only displacement can produce, which make my 30+ HP smallie seem slow!

@@ChandlerHowell-Vespa Ah ok, that definitely makes more sense now. Pretty much I just want to buy a Smallframe obviously between 50 or 125cc whatever I can find, and then I want to build an engine like the one you have, or something similar made by other aftermarket performance companies. I have really good mechanical knowledge and have rebuilt engines before, especially on my Dirt Bike, so it’s nothing that I can’t do, but I still more then likely would have like Scooter West in San Diego, CA build the engine for me, and I would just ride around for fun, but want something that has the power and sound of a dirt bike. My Grandpa has a 1962 Vespa VBB 150 bone stock which he’s had since the 1970s, and both my uncles once had P200E’s back when they were in high school in the 1980s, so that’s where I first got Interested in them, but again I’m not too familiar with models and specifics, and especially the aftermarket Performance industry to really wake them up. What would you suggest as a good kit by Quattrini or other Brand but similar kit for a small frame for my purpose? And yeah, I know there’s Large Frames out there that definitely have crazy power bands and high redlines, but I’m not too familiar with those engine kits, as most of the time the videos I’ve seen of large frames with cylinder kits, exhausts, carbs, etc seem to have the same linear and slow power band and low Redline as it would be stock, but then again, I’m no expert on Vespas and what it would take for a Large Frame to really be woken up like that if that makes sense. Hopefully a comparison between these videos will better explain what I mean by a Large Frame with a head kit, exhaust, carburetor, etc sounding and running like how it would be stock with no crazy RPMs, vs one that really is woken up and screams. It could be just there are kits that keep the stock head design vs ones with a different design which I may be confusing the two between, but here are examples: ruclips.net/video/LXpNFL9QhE4/видео.htmlsi=l04-QOHc2qeuvElO ruclips.net/video/4gL-95CZvGc/видео.htmlsi=NZXm8TquSdXqUwNI

@@Duderocks5539 If you want to go REALLY crazy, a Quattini M200S is going to be the absolute beastiest thing you can reliably build. It's good for (theoretically) 44 HP without further modifications. Plan on spending north of $4k just for engine parts to make that happen though, because you're going to need high-end race versions of every single part in the motor, along with quattrini cases and crank. If you have experience building two stroke motors, other than picking the parts, it's nothing you couldn't do yourself with a high level of diligence. These are not complicated motors and really don't even require all that many special tools to work on. Of course, once that's done, you're going to need wheels and tires, shocks, brakes, mounting buffers, and pretty much every other part, plus ideally some frame strengthening to keep it all wheels side down. Plus you're going to find that first might as well not exist and second is not much more useful. You'll probably pull power wheelies in every gear if you're not careful, too. None of which is to say you can't build a screamer of a largeframe. My GL's motor is built using LML reeded cases with a BGM177, 60mm bell crank, vforce4 reeds, and a pwk34 carb. It revs past 10,000 RPM's before it goes into overrun, so barely a thousand RPM's short of the smallie, but has an extra 2,500 RPM's of power band on the low end (so net gain of over 1,500 RPM's) and puts out over 25HP across a broader rev range. It just doesn't whip you neck back as much when it gets into the power and doesn't *sound* like it for whatever reason. And I guarantee that both of those motors you linked to have similar or higher redlines, but in all cases, they have a wider power band because of the increased torque--as you can see in the video of the 306, where he's popping power wheelies in first through at least third gear. The choice of components makes a HUGE difference in how any motor performs. Sure, the smallies have a more modern design and better power:displacement ratios as a result, but don't sneer at the largeframes. A properly designed and built (both of which are apparently harder than they seem) motor can do amazing things, large or small frame. 😁

@@ChandlerHowell-Vespa I’ve seen videos of Smallframes with 250’s up to 300’s, such as the Egig 250 and 300, which is just crazy. What also likely contributes to the slow and linear power delivery of stock engines small and large frame is more than likely the small transfer ports and intake port the more I think about it. It’s like the same concept for example between say two 50cc dirt bikes, a Yamaha PW50 is going to have small transfers and intake, along with no reed, and have a smooth and linear power delivery with no high rpm’s or power bands, whereas a KTM 50 has a bigger transfers and a larger intake, plus a reed. Larger transfer ports and intake, coupled with a reed really is what does the trick with waking it up giving it a far more aggressive power delivery and powerband. Pretty much two different types of 2 stroke engines if that makes sense, with obviously both working exactly the same. I understand more on how the aftermarket Vespa scene is now as I watch more videos. If I were to buy a kit like this: www.ebay.com/itm/313346034050 What would I have to do in regards to the gearbox and cases? I assume you just use the stock gearbox and either modify and port match the stock cases, or buy aftermarket cases? In the case of just buying aftermarket cases, what aftermarket case matches this kit? As far as I can tell, the absolute cheapest it would cost to build a performance engine would be atleast $3K.

correct me if i am wrong.. I heard that Smallframe motor can go high rev because the engine build is different, especially the opposite crank side is not clutch but a pinion gear, and perhaps most parts are lighter.

Main jet size wouldn't cause flooding when stopped or at low RPM's. If the jet stack wasn't screwed all the way in, it might cause behavior like this, but maybe not even then. In this case, the main was actually starving at WOT until I drilled my float passage.

Its not main jet i think it is the flot ball leavel needs to be refixed that will avoid o er throughing.

El chicler de alta estará alrededor de 90 ,si sigue tirando NAFTA hacia afuera deberías revisar la válvula rotativa de tu motor

Thanks! The repair has been holding up perfectly for over a year now, so definitely a win for me!

The issue was not the tap (I've run nothing but fast flow taps for years). It's a si24/24 with about a 130 main jet. The passage from the float bowl to the jet stack was too small. I drilled it out to 2.5mm and that fixed it immediately. If you run a main jet larger than about a 125, you will see this problem on undrilled si carbs. I thought it was already drilled, so was surprised when I looked at it and realized it was still stock.

Most people who know me are happy to see it's now rating that high! 🤪