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All good points. I knew this going into the project, but for me availability, cost, and concerns regarding the ability to machine large flat surfaces were factors. The quoted tolerances in general, and of my selected pieces specifically, were acceptable. I think if I had a larger, more rigid CNC, I would have tried to source thicker plate. With this new Z assembly, I will see if I can get good results facing large rolled aluminum stock with better than cast tolerances. If so, and if my current assembly does not perform as expected, I may machine the plates again but with 6061/7075/etc... Thank you for sharing your insights.

Masso allows tool locations to be outside of the soft limits to protect them from accidental machining. The tool setter needs to remain inside the soft limit area however. I use my tool setter once to set z offsets for all my tools, so I usually toggle soft limits off and on as needed.

JGL-80/2.2R24-20 www.jian-ken.com/automatic-pneumatic-tool-change-spindle-motor/jgl-80-1-5kw-2-2kw-2-5kw-24000rpm-40000rpm.html

Happy to share. I purchased my spindle from Jianken. It is a JGL 80 mm 2.2Kw water cooled. So far it has been working well, and the before and after sales support, along with payment and shipping were all positive experiences. A number of others in the forums I frequent have also had similar experiences, some purchasing the 100 or 110 mm versions.

Thank you for the feedback. Not a trained engineer, and no official OCD diagnosis, but I definitely can see sharing some traits - good or bad😄 That is great that you found some inspiration for your own machine - that has always been my goal for providing detailed videos of my thinking and work, as it is how I learned from so many others' willingness to share their projects. Happy building!

@@tmtoronto3741 (I'm about to hit my bride with the happy news that I'm buying the Altmill, and waiting thirteen weeks for delivery)

It is part of the design I am testing. The main aluminum dust shoe has a 90 mm diameter thru hole for the spindle. I am experimenting with attachments for the top. This clear acrylic tube extension is one I really like, as it allows 'some' viewing of the machining from above. I am still deciding on its final height, but this one, along with the bristle ring attachment on the spindle end, catches almost all chips.

@@tmtoronto3741 dude it’s genius. Can’t wait to see your attachments.. I’m sure there are others that would love to have something like this

@@anthonyrivers8395 thank you. If interested, this is the link to my previous video, where I detail the making and functioning of the floating dust shoe - ruclips.net/video/s_ItrmraiKE/видео.html

Thank you for the positive feedback - I appreciate it.

HaHa😀I forgot the TV was on in the background - I was too focused on holding my phone camera while trying to get my Fusion assembly to move the way I wanted it to😁 Maybe I will look for screen capture software to record such screen motion in the future.

I am using a Masso G3 controller and Jianken ATC spindle, which ships PNP standard. Cables 11 and 22 are 3 wire - brown=10-30VDC, blue=0VDC, black +VDC to Masso input. I am using linear tool change type 2 logic. I believe I have 11 assigned Tool change Input 2, and 22 assigned as Tool changer Input 1 (If my memory is wrong then just reverse 11 and 22).

@@tmtoronto3741 I have the same Jianken spindle. I just finished getting the motors and spindle hooked where where the machine will run. I haven't started messing with the tool changer yet, I'm a little confused on how it all works coming from Mach3 where you could write a scripted for what you want it to do and how to utilize sensors etc. what do you mean by using " I am using linear tool change type 2 logic" can you write you own logic with this controller or is there pre programed logic? Thanks for the info!

@@bransonlariscy4660 no, Masso does not have an option for users to write their own macros, scripts, etc. - it is a fairly closed system, which I suppose has advantages and disadvantages. The logic I am referring to is described in their online manual. They are constantly updating and improving their software, and recently introduced options for a few new tool change types. The logic is set by Masso, and controls things like clamp/unclamp, dust shoe/tool tray up and down, etc - basically different inputs and outputs controlling actions of different components based on a few use cases and machine setups and sensors. This is my first CNC, and I came to this hobby a few years ago with no past experience, so have nothing to compare the controller to. I found the tool change setup straightforward, and for my build I found a tool change logic that did what I needed it to do. There are a few options I would like to see added - and if you do as well Masso does respond to user feedback and feature requests.

Thank you again Bill for the thoughtful feedback - I appreciate it.

Thank you. It works well. Next step is to calibrate the camera to focus on the exact spot regardless of Z height - not an easy task because of the way these cameras are manufactured. When successful, I will use it instead of my spot laser to accurately set XY zero of stock (I have a 3D probe for when I need micron-ish precision).

I purchased spiral flat wire coil constant force springs. I found some for a reasonable price on Aliexpress.

@@tmtoronto3741 Thanks for the quick reply! Sorry to be a pain but do you happen to know what thickness you used? I found a few and am thinking of doing some similar to you. Cheers

@@craigjohnson5189 you are not being a pain (-: Here is the store link - www.aliexpress.com/item/4000310913714.html?gps-id=pcStoreLeaderboard&scm=1007.22922.271278.0&scm_id=1007.22922.271278.0&scm-url=1007.22922.271278.0&pvid=8441d942-eb90-40a2-a06d-ea61f8649818&_t=gps-id:pcStoreLeaderboard,scm-url:1007.22922.271278.0,pvid:8441d942-eb90-40a2-a06d-ea61f8649818,tpp_buckets:668%232846%238112%231997&pdp_npi=4%40dis%21CAD%2110.22%2110.22%21%21%217.30%217.30%21%402101e58b17129111345716659eb9c8%2112000027272554377%21rec%21CA%212566286070%21&spm=a2g0o.store_pc_home.smartLeaderboard_833793140.4000310913714 I purchased two sizes, but found the 0.2x12.7x3700mm size seemed to be the best with respect to force and travel distance for this application (Woodworker model).

Don't stop there!😄Goal #9 was important, and had influence on the linear motion components I selected. I only added an extra ~20 mm over the stock Z20 Onefinity mount. It was definitely worth the time and money as my new assembly is so much more rigid, and affords a lot more flexibility in available accessory mounting options.

@@tmtoronto3741 full video was worth the wait; I'll be following your lead as I modify my Onefinity. Since I'm waiting on a truck I ordered before I pull the trigger on the Foreman, I'm designing peripherals. (one number I have not definitively established is the Z; travel, and deepest point)

@@roblmurphy4135 thank you! Although I like the Onefinity, I would encourage you to look at another small Canadian CNC company (Sienci Labs out of Kitchener, ON) that just launched a new CNC called the 'Altmill'. I really like the design - probably would have bought it if available 2+ years ago. There is a wait though.

@@tmtoronto3741 I'm looking at the Altmill, biting back my initial bias, (it happens to the best of us) and comparing fruit to bananas. Weird how one detil gets in my craw; I like the Onefinity, but I prefer to have the long rails mounted below the level of the spoilboard. I know, of all the aspects to decide a multi thousand doughnut purchase... I was following your videos to learn about the spindle. Still tempted by the RapidChange ATC. So far nobody has screamed foul. Keep going, you're doing a great service.

@@roblmurphy4135 I like machines designed like that as well, but I think that adds cost, as the structure and precision of the frame takes on a greater importance. I think Onefinity did a good job of providing a reasonably rigid design at a reasonable entry level price point. Besides the Altmill, most other well built entry level machines jump to a next level pricing tier. I think that is a difficult category, as some small start-ups/business owners may just decide to jump to the more commercial $15-20K CNCs.

Thank you for your interest and kind words. I am using the free version of Fusion for CAD and CAM.

NX怎么样 我有7年工作经验

Both, if I understand your question. I have a Woodworker X50 with 3rd rail. The plate, and completed Z axis assembly I designed, is going to replace the current stock Z20 Z axis. I am almost ready to share a video update of it - I have it installed now and almost calibrated. The Z heights are different, so I will need to reconfigure my ATC rack, but may wait until I finish initial test cuts before doing that.

@@tmtoronto3741 excellent! I should have clarified that I was asking if the video was of your X-50 making the plate or if you were using another machine to cut it. I've got an X-35 and, while I do love it, I feel I'm nearing its limitations when it comes to cutting aluminum. I don't trust the motors to carry a spindle, and even they could provide adequate power, I worry that the rails would allow too much deflection to prove out the meaningful differences between spindle and router. So I suppose I'll just keep going slow and steady until I can afford a truly substantial machine upgrade.

@@BlackBearCustomKydex my machine never had the original motors as I installed 3Nm steppers from the start. I agree about the deflection, and although a fairly rigid and well designed machine, the Onefinity is set up more for the Makita. I will share some new deflection data in my next video showing the installation and testing of my new Z axis, but I can tell you from initial impressions that the overall design of tubes and linear bearings is now the weak point - and that will not change no matter what mods I make. I will say that my interest has now shifted to the new Altmill from Sienci. It is the kind of CNC router I would build, and it looks very capable. The first batch ships soon, and I am looking forward to real user reviews to start coming in. Check out the company videos if interested - it is not a Bridgeport, but looks like a very versatile machine for home/small business use.

I have the Woodworker model upgraded to the X50 with 3rd rail. I just finished installing my new Z Axis assembly, and after tramming and fine tuning will once again test deflection. I did a deep dive into this a while ago, and posted the data in the Onefinity forum. Although a very capable machine for a CNC router, my testing showed <1 Nm/um. I am keeping my eye open for user reviews of the Sienci Altmill which will start shipping out soon. It would be the next CNC router I would probably purchase, if nothing else other than to compare it to my Onefinity.

It is an ATC model from Jian-ken - from the JGL series. It is an 80 mm 24K RPM 2.2 Kw water-cooled spindle. Here is the company link - www.jian-ken.com/

Slotting is not my first choice, but with very shallow DOC, monitoring and adjusting feed rate and RPM, and plenty of air to evacuate chips it actually worked quite well. I also like adaptive, and used it for my plates - I just today finished the top plate and the adaptive worked very well. In the past I would have used one of my saws to get the stock to a size closer to my part, then used contours mostly after that. But I don't have a shop, and found the chips are better contained on my CNC than in my back yard or basement where they used to fly everywhere (-:

@@tmtoronto3741 Hi yeh well we all know the pit falls to slotting But I have been 6mm and 8mm slotting 6061 alloy to an 8mm depth using ramping with great results using mist coolant and air blast also wood to 20mm deep though it get harder to clear the chips after 17mm, thanks for putting out this video Cheers Bill from Australia

@@williamnorris1516 I appreciate the kind words! Speaking of slotting, in my last video put up yesterday, I share a clip of an 'oops' moment where I chose not to run a simulation - which I always do BTW. At the finish of a 2D adaptive at 4 mm DOC my 1/4" O Flute finished plowed through to position the start of the next pocket. I hit Feed Hold quickly, and nothing broke, and it gave me a great slo-mo shot to share of the chips flying at ~ the 4:33 minute mark in the video! How we learn ...

@@tmtoronto3741 yes it's always the one time you don't check the simulation that shit happens ha ha I will check out your latest Video Cheers Bill

Scratch that; I'm following along on that thread over at the forum. Thank you for blazing the path.

Wait, run that by me again? .8mm passes, consistent across the project? (Okay, it's a small project, but the point is, getting those numbers convinces me to invest in the elite Onefinity... I'd already set my sights on it, but yeah. My previous attempt at CNC using a primitive Shopbot, didn't come close. It was like crayons at arms length.

Thank you for the feedback. It takes a long time to produce the videos, but since I learned almost everything about CNCs and machining from others willing to share content, I am happy to as well if it helps others.

​@@roblmurphy4135cool, but he isn't using an a elite just fyi ;)

Hi! I forgot to add that info to the description - it was one reason for me designing the new assembly. I have my Y rails on 80 mm extrusions. The distance from the bottom of the X axis block to the top of my cast aluminum table is about 210 mm. With my design, my longest end mill (stick-out of ~50 mm from ISO20 holder) will reach down ~3 cm above the table - not a problem as I use fixture plates etc... that are well above the table. When fully raised this same end mill will clear/be above the bottom of the X axis block. I measured my new total Z spindle travel to be ~180 mm (~7"). I am happy with that as a few extra centimetres in my machine design makes a difference, and more importantly it is providing a much more robust double spindle mount.

I'm still watching every video you've made because there's so much to learn, thanks.

We are a family of coffee lovers! The small ones are for kitchen décor, but really just a test for a larger version that will be hollow with a lid - it will hold a pound of coffee beans. I have it modelled in F360, but need to order extra long reach endmills.

@@roblmurphy4135 Thank you - I am happy you like them!

Thank you for the positive feedback, I appreciate it. It takes a fair bit of time to put together the videos, but I enjoy it, especially if it helps others. I am relatively new to CNC machining, and much of what I have learned thus far has been from others willing to make the time to share either through forum support or informative videos. As for the birds, I am currently making them to give to family, but hope to soon start selling them if the interest is there. The challenge is to find the right platform, and decide on a price that fairly compensates me for the cost of exotic woods and other materials used, as well as the time for set-up, machining, and finishing steps. I will say I am pleased with how they are turning out.

@@tmtoronto3741 Just as I suspected; you're good at what you do, total noob to sales. Bless you. Your bird sculptures are worth making a product out of, but you've got more up your sleeve than you know. I'm in similar shoes, or slippers, and trying to figure out how to do it. I'll study your videos and applaud you for what I learn. Stay the course, you're on a good path.

@@roblmurphy4135 Thank you!

Thank you for the feedback - happy it helped!

My ATC uses ISO20 toolholders. I have been buying G2.0-2.5 holders, and use endmill type (one size) 5 micron TIR precision collets. I plan to do other toolpath tests as well, particularly since my plan is to design and machine my own Z assembly with linear rails and ball screw/nut of known specifications. I will be curious to see if my deflection test results change in any significant way.

Thank you! I appreciate the positive comment.😃

Tnx!

Tnx. I have two other warmup routines, one spindle warm up only, and the other is as shown in the video that also has the spindle warmup running at the same time. As you can imagine there are many opinions as to whether warmup routines of any kind are needed for a setup like mine, but I feel it can't hurt.

I agree as well (and why I decided to mention my 'unconventional' work holding method in my video text). I think the mod vise and thickness of aluminum stock helped. one idea I had, were I to make more sets of these, is to machine the holes and pocket on all of them while in the vise (none of these have critical tolerances), then use the holes to bolt the aluminum stock onto my fixture plate for the finish contours. This worked well for tool rack project, which also had a protective layer of acrylic over the fixture plate. I am happy you enjoy the videos. They take a lot of time to produce, but I like sharing, and it gives me an audio visual record as reference for how well (or not) the toolpaths are working.

I agree, and am interested to find out. One thing I like about this design is that I do not lose any X axis travel at either end, as this is important for both homing, but also to be able to access all 24 tool slots in my new linear tool rack. Installation is also very simple.

@@tmtoronto3741 24 tool slots ... Sent me off to look at how many the G3 supported... 100 tools! My piggy bank is not that deep. Assuming you don't put the 3D probe or the dial indicator in the rack, how many tools are comfortable to work with? 6?, 12? or all 24?

@@carlslater7492 I remember a few years ago when I first considered CNC machining as a hobby, the advise and information shared on the many forums I frequented. One that always stood out was 'remember to consider the cost of tooling, it can add up to more than your CNC cost'. It is an investment for sure, but one I wanted in order to take full advantage of my ATC. Using my roll way cover project as a recent example, for all the parts and toolpaths I used: Datron 5mm 4 in 1 Datron 4.2 mm drill Datron 5 mm drill 90 degree chamfer endmill Spetool 1/4" O flute SCT threadmill If I wanted a better surface finish (it was already very good though), I have 2 and 3 flute endmills for that. Additionally, I have surfacing endmills for wood and aluminum, a diamond drag tool, 1/8" and 1/4" (plus metric) cut diameters, and some endmills dedicated to a particular material (I bought a new Datron 4 in 1 just for acrylic), and some with and without coatings. So the short answer is I am using all 24😁 but it really depends on what I (you) plan to machine. It wasn't until a few months ago that I really started gaining confidence in my abilities, and with that came more complex projects and therefore a greater variety of tooling used. My suggestion is to build the largest tool rack possible, and fill the slots as needs change and budget allows.

Thank you, I think it will work very well. The experience has given me more appreciation for the time and cost involved for businesses to provide some of the quality packaging I have received items in over the years.

Hello from Canada. I am happy you found the video helpful. I designed both this and my previous version of spring loaded holders, and the main components are 3D printed. Even though the initial testing went well, I may still modify the tool change height to allow for a bit of push on the holder, so the spring action will still be of benefit. Our spindles use a gripper clamp, vs ball bearing and sleeve, and I want to avoid wear on the action when the pull stud is grabbed too far down the four gripper arms. Here is an image of how it works - highspeedtechnologies.com/portfolio/cms-brembana/cms-brembana-spindle-repair-and-rebuild_gripper-assembly-cut-away/#iLightbox[postimages]/0 Jianken also sent a picture and video of the clamp and mechanism when I enquired about it. I found when setting up my previous tool holders, that it does not take much height difference to go from clamping to getting an error if clamping happens to high. Having the spring means I can avoid any issue with clamping errors by making it safe to have a lower pickup height, knowing the spring avoids any wear or damage to the holder or rack. I built my rack using aluminum extrusion and 5 mm thick sheet for rigidity, so it has no give at all. Enjoy your build adventure. Tom

@@tmtoronto3741 Thanks Tom that's something I did not know ok I will do spring loaded holders as well regards Bill

@@williamnorris1516 it is just something I wanted to do, partly because of the movement I always see when watching videos of CNCs dropping/removing toolholders from those plastic forks. I only ever remember seeing one commercial machine - European I think - that used a tool rack with spring assisted holders (for the vertical movements not side to side, as I have seen some forks for larger CAT tools that use springs in the fork arms). You are correct though in your initial statements - it sure looks like my video makes them appear to be functionally unnecessary (-:

@@tmtoronto3741 Yes the movement is mesmerizing and I love watching as well I have a piece of 6061 alloy 1000mm x 200 mm x 12 mm that I will use looks like I can also get two rows of 12 tool holders, what spacing are your holes and would you share the file to print the holder I can give you my email if that works better for you thanks Bill

@@williamnorris1516 if you have the same spindle as I do, which has an outer diameter of 80 mm, then the smallest spacing I calculated was about 55 mm - I used a spacing of 60 mm in all directions on mine. If you have a larger spindle, this will be different as the diameter of it and its tool holders will be larger. I am happy to share my file - I work in F360. You will need to modify it as my plate was 5 mm thick, and yours is 12. Please share your email and we can continue this and future discussions that way. Tom

Sorry for the delayed response. I am happy to help if I can. What stage are you at currently?

@@tmtoronto3741 Hi thanks for getting back to me still trying to get a clear and precise picture on how to wire the two spindle clamp signal wires to the Masso so is one for clamp/unclamp as in Hi / low signal and the other for tool in place signal or is one signal wire for clamp and the other signal wire for unclamp . Signal wires are inputs I assume Masso triggers the 24 volt to the sensors via relays from outputs just need to be clear don't want to damage the Masso Ok many thanks regards Bill

Hi i have just found your post on the Masso forum that answers all of this for me ok thanks Bill

@@williamnorris1516 no problem. I wasn't sure if that was you, or another Jianken owner - there are more and more of us now! let me know how things work out, and if more information is needed.

So far it is working quite well. I am using a Masso G3 controller and Onefinity Woodworker CNC router. I am new to machining, but have learned that with realistic and conservative toolpath parameters this system is very repeatable and accurate.

I think it appears I am everywhere as I recently decided to make my YT and IG accounts public😁 Now that my build and mods are complete (mostly) and I am making things I thought I would share beyond my regular forum posts. As for Datron tooling, I chose them to try based on their focus on high speed/RPM tooling, as well as what I hope is quality design and carbide. They also are metric, which is what I prefer to work in, so for example it was easy for me to order a 4.2mm drill for my M5 threaded holes. I am still - very - new to machining, so everything I do is an experiment, and based on as much research as I can do. Time will tell if Datron, and my toolpaths and parameters, are acceptable - but so far I am very pleased. With respect to the drilling operation, I experimented with 18 000 RPM and a chip breaking strategy - 0.5 mm peck depth, 5 mm before full retract, chip break distance 0.15 mm. I may change this as I learn more, but for all I do I try to stay on the conservative side, given my lack of experience.

Thanks!

To be honest I did not think it would be possible.