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Thank you for putting this together. ❤

I think it comes down to personal preference because, honestly, each person who can be divine has their own issues that arise. I will say this, saying that Viv does not car for mages outside of the circle is not entirely accurate. She actually expresses in haven that her concern is for all mages because the Rebel mages move has made it dangerous for everybody. She states that their decision has created fear and that this fear is going to make matters worse. She even says that "by all means, protest abuses at the hands of the Templars. Just don't do it in a way that says mages support murder. She will also tell you in Skyhold (if you have negative approval with her) that her concern is for her fellow mages because she doesn't want to see people in angry modes hunting them down out of fear. She also shows a lot of concern for the Tranquil when you take her to Redcliff and open the shed that has the Tranquil skulls. The other thing I will point out is that she actually gives the Circles mages more freedoms and responsibilities while also leashing the Templars when she is made Divine. Viv's supports the circles because, as she tells you in Haven "Mages need the company of other mages. No one else can truly understand the struggles we (mages) face or see the world as we (mages) do" So, her support of the circle is to give mages a place to be able to be with others of their kind to learn without fear or judgment. She also turns the Circle into a political powerhouse and, by extension, gives the circle more Political power which is something they had many many many years back but that was pretty much taken away due to the fear of magic. I will say that Viv can come off a little snobbish but, honestly, that's because she is Orlesian and they are all like that. However, it can never be said that she doesn't care for her fellow mages because it is pointed out constantly throughout the game. But, again, it mostly comes out to personal preference. I'm pretty sure that, much like with most of our decisions, they are not going to have any lasting effect because, even at the end of the Inquisition DLC, you still end up with a Circle and a College of Enchanters no matter who you make as Divine.

@@StrifeStalker Ok. I still think she have a "conditional" care. And it's easy to say she's concerned by everybody else's hostile reaction to mages, when she is, in fact, saying the rebel mages are guilty for that, and not the previous repression. I got her angry at me for allying with the mages and standing for fair treatment of them inside the Inquisition. She is the first to say mages are inherently bad and need to be taken away for people's safety. If people are not like her, raised and trained in a Circle, she treats them like abominations or uncapable little magic bombs. She's close minded, full of prejudice and only care for those who think as she does. I don't know if you know about this concept, but the way she thinks about mages is the same way some gay people that suffer from internalized homophobia think about other gays, or how some middle class citizens defend the rich and despise the poor.

@@GabrielPassarelliG I mean, if we are being honest Cass gets angry at you for showing fair treatment to the Rebel Mages too. Also, keep in mind the Rebel mages are not ALL mages, they have the ones who chose to rebel. Remember the the decision was not unanimous but Fiona chose to let the motion stand anyway. There are quite a few mages in Redcliff you can talk to that tells you they are not happen with the the decision. Also, another difference is, if you disbanded the Templars Cass disproves but Viv actually slightly approves. You have to pay attention to how Viv acts, not what she says. For example; On the attack on Haven as you are trying to escape Viv will say that you dont have time to save everyone but, if you manage to actually do it, she approves. You will also gain approval with her if you show remorse in Skyhold for the loss of lives and not being able to save everyone. So, its not conditional, its hidden. After all, I just feel like someone who was a self hating mage wouldn't actually grant them with more freedoms. That makes no sense. Either way, it mostly comes down to perspective and what a person sees or chooses to see. A lot of Viv motivations and real feeling are hidden in subtext and actually paying attention. Lets not forget that if you allied with the rebel mages and make Cass Divine that they actually rebel again and cause tension in the Circle. The only scenario that works with them is if you put Lil as Divine. So lets not say that Viv is the issue when, in all honestly, the Rebel Mages cause issues with everyone except for Lil but then Lil has her own set of problems as well to deal with.

Very well said. A lot of people seem to try and place Viv in a bubble of a self hating mage who is pro Templars and want all mages locked up, but that is never what she says and not what her actions state. In short, she stated that, by all mean, protest abuses at the hands of the Templars. Just dont do it in a way that says that mages support murder. Her entire issue is how the rebel mages went about doing things without thinking of the consequences it would have on all mages, not the fact that they actually did something. Radical change rarely works, however, gradual change over time usually is more receptive to people and usually ends up lasting. Viv is a politician and sees this and is concerned that what the rebel mages did is going to set what acceptances mages did have back. After all, its a very odd thing to do to give Circle mages more freedoms while leashing the Templars when she is made Divine if she was anti mage freedom and pro Templar. It, logically, doesn't make sense.

@@StrifeStalker Exactly. I couldn't make her Divine specifically because of h er own words. Vivienne pointed out a radical change won't work. A mage divine would be WAY too radical. I usually make non-stabby Leliana divine, making sure Vivienne has a lot of support from mages, Cassandra is rebuilding the Seekers and the inquisition remains. Leliana pushes the radical changes that need to be given a platform, Vivienne and Cassandra maintain the status quo mentality that its needed as a counterbalance and the Inquisition, and by extension an inquisitor PC, tends to be a mediator. Is it perfect? No. But Vivienne is a great mage leader. Political savvy, well connected, and caring of her charges. Personal best example how good she is as a leader for mages, Waaaay better than Fiona, is when we open the door to a house in Redcliffe filled with skulls of the tranquil made into ocularum. She's disgusted and clearly mournful since she believed they would be safer with the rebel mages (considering her own forces of loyal mages was much smaller and less likely to be able to protect the tranquil from uppity templars). Of all companions, none of the mages had such a guttural reaction to it. It's small, two lines of dialogue but it conveys such a difference between her and say Solas or Dorian. She's a prime example of a bitch that cares. Kinda funny, but I feel if she was romanceable, people would compare her to Morrigan.

@@ac6418 I honestly feel like Viv's outward persona is part of 'The Game" of Olais because Viv states the point of the game is "to never let others see your true facade" and Cole calls Viv out on this. Part of their party banter is when Cole calls her out saying that she was actually concerned about him. Viv tries to play it off, but Cole says "No, you cared. The part of you that forgets I'm me cared. You want it to go away. You think caring makes you weak" Viv has created "The Iron Lady" facade to protect herself. After all, it's hard to be hurt when you portray yourself as unbothered and uncaring. Most of Viv's character development and true mentality is hidden behind context clues and dialogue.

I mean... she was pretty much that way in Origins too, very "me me me me, not them, me" lol People want to blame Flemeth for this, however, there still should be some accountability on Morrigan's part.

That’s not entirely accurate. Cole points out via party banter when he looks into her mind a few times at the abuses and even racism she has endured in Orlais and in the circle. He also references her harrowing because that was the point when Viv decided she would “never be controlled again” Viv also points out that mages have the right and even agrees they should protest abuses at the hands of the Templars but just don’t do it in a way that makes all mages look bad or that they condone murder. Viv is actually for change but within the realm of “protocol” so to speak. She wants to create change in the system, not burn it all down. She is very political, yes, but she isn’t anti mage or pro Templar. You actually gain approval with her if you disbanded the Templars and she agrees that they are not the solution but are still a useful tool to deal with demons and abominations.

@@StrifeStalker it is entirely accurate that what she cares about is threats to her power, including the Templars. Her recommendation to “protest” abuses is entirely disingenuous because in general those who would have the most cause to protest are those least empowered to do so (e.g. the Tranquils). It’s all about her and her alone, as you very well mention.

@@logseman5959 again, not accurate and I am almost tempted to believe that you didn't watch the very video you are commenting on or you would have seen quite a few of the time she showed she cared about others which negates your primary argument. Not to mention that this is just the highlights, there is actually a video that's almost an hour long that shows all the times she showcased she cared for others. The only one clip I think I didn't get is the one where she express her concern for her fellow mages being hunted by angry mods. The only reason why I don't have that clip is because you have to have a rather negative approval with her by the time you reach Skyhold. However, I you do, she express to you that her concern is for her fellow mages because she does not want to see them hunted down by townspeople in angry mods due to an increased fear of magic and mages. Also, just a statement, someone can wish to collect power and influence but that does not mean that they wont use that power to help others. If made Divine one of the first things she does is leash the Templars and gives mages more freedoms and responsibilities than ever before. The fact that she does this is a direct controdiction to the basic argument that most people have that she is pro Templar and anti mages. Seem rather counter productive to give more freedoms to the people you feel should be locked up and confined, doesn't it?

That's the current plan, yes.

Probably. But most importantly Aerith has seen the events of the original FF7 from the lifestream.

What she shouldn't know is that Barrett is her dad

Also, it’s done under a theocratic military dictatorship. No thank you

„All people are dangerous.“ Yes, but not everyone in equal measure. Mages are far more dangerous than any hyper violent psychopath or serial killer. They control immense powers beyond the grasp of most others, or are incapable of controlling them which leads to the endangerment of themselves and their surroundings. An untrained mage who feels endangered or enraged can cause havoc which will be hard to suppress for anyone who isn’t trained in the way Templars are. To quote someone from the game infamous second son: "The crazier this city gets, the more it just proves Augustine was right. Conduits and humans can't live together. We're too different. Too dangerous. I mean, think about it from their side. Humans have a bad day, they might punch a hole in the wall, or crash their car. Conduits have a bad day, and the body count is in double digits. Conduits are in a completely different weight class than humans

Nope, My Druid killed Karlach because he is about keeping one's word/oath. Since Wyll agreed to the deal, he is making him stick to it even tho he (my druid) doesn't agree with it. Also, my Druid doesn't trust the illithid powers so he hasn't actually unlocked any of them or plan to use them or become a mind flayer.

@@StrifeStalker I see. Thanks to your walkthrough I realized that I like the Duergar and one comment on a video about Gortash pointed out how interesting it will be to see his interactions with a cleric of Bane, so I decided to go for neutral evil power hungry cleric of Bane Duergar run as my first one when I have opportunity. He will save the Grove and Karlach out of pragmatism and for me to witness more content. My second run will be oathbreaker paladin dragonborn Durge where I will go pretty much full psycho

....ummmmm, I killed her :) But on purpose, it wasn't accidental, I meant to for Wyll's story. My druid is all about actions have consequences so he is making Wyll stick to his contract even tho he doesn't agree with it. My bard and cleric will keep her safe though :)

@@StrifeStalker in which part of your walkthrough you killed her?

@@spcellAI I haven't posted it yet but will soon. Prob in the next day or so.

Will romance Halsin, yes. May or may not involve Ast just because I see that as a fling right now for fun and boredom but we shall see. No the the Emperor on both and undecided on Orpheus. But we will see, things could change

@@StrifeStalker if you don't want to romance the Emperor, then I would like to see what his responses will be if you politely reject his romance by telling him to better stick to business

Will do!

That’s the plan, yup!

Agreed! :)

Yes, depending. If you kill her after investigating her then you are good to go. If you kill her prior to that then you start a war between the Druids and Tieflings and then a lot of people die. But I guess that choice also depends on what type of character you are playing as well.