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@@Anglo-NormanWarlord those are just clear plastic "riot shields" from ebay and the like. I just spray painted the inside

@doubleonese7en thank you! I will likely not make a video tutorial, but possibly a video talking about my process and showing some of the progress pics. Basically it is three layers of very thin poplar, linen covering back and front, bit of bronze fittings, paint.

@@gozer87 thank you!

@ghettohamburgler9105 hah, well glad that you enjoyed anyhow! Thanks for stopping by!

@BorninPurple Thank you! There are instances in which I do, but generally in our "defensive" or "retreating" postures which is where I tend to see that shield position in Greek art. I didn't really use those much in this one.

I hadn’t considered this, actually, this was our first time sparring with a lot of this kit. A horizontal grip might be a bit more functional now that I think about it, so we may try this next time. Thanks for the comment!

@@cierni thank you! There will certainly be more with it.

@tommyss4l thank you very much! I want to work with the system some more first, but a few people jave suggested that so I'm definitely considering it.

​@corrugatedcavalier5266 dude, definitely. Or atleast could you put together a list of references/reading that you're extracting all this info from so we could do our own investigations? If you did manage to collate it into your own book or guide though youd have a claim to the first greek spear-fighting manual written in probably 1500 years or more.

It's quite a bit different, but not entirely. I'm still getting used to it as well.

I've played with a rotella and boss gripped shields and they play quite differently. I don't think a bossed grip shield works well with a spear. As you see it can be easily collapsed. I also feel strapped rounds are superior in almost every way.

@@tommyss4lI would have to agree with you, yeah. I think that boss gripped shields might have some advantage and that one could learn to use them; I liked it for warding off projectiles, for example. My parmula (the smaller roman velites shield) is a bit clunky as it is right now, and a good but slightly awkward size. We do plan to put a strap on it and I think that will be much more effective in close spear fighting, but I don’t want to abandon the un-strapped central grip quite yet. Thanks for the comment!

Thank you! It's a really fun system to play with.

@@powpowpowlo4080 haha yeah I was proud of that moment. It's one we weren't sure if it was just artistic convention or practical

@MortdeathMinis yep, bigger shields are on the way. These are roughly rotella sized, which is a Renaissance Italian shield.

@corsonforcas thank you! Honestly everything is so situational that it's hard to find a "best" but I could probably put something together on good options from the armored sword guards.

@philiprayner yeah I'm not sure about England, personally. Depictions of arming garments can be hard to come by in this period.

Yeah I shift into that during use sometimes, if I know what you mean.

My pleasure!

Agreed. Working on it!

I could see that as an option as well

Good eye! Yes, a lot of us train a good amount of wrestling. A 2 on 1 is actually a good idea if it's your opponent's main weapon arm, but even then you have to be quick about it, as you say.

@@corrugatedcavalier5266i think black definitely had some great options available from that position, but may have been too fixated on trying to stab you to recognize what was happening. idk if any sword fighting manuals mention that position but if it happens a lot in practice it might be worth just starting there and seeing what you can make happen, especially if you already know what to do in a russian. it's my favorite tie because i can grab it even against much stronger training partners with relatively low risk. it may be worth looking into how consistently you can force a 2 on 1 on your opponents weapon arm from something like a half sword bind, following up on knocking your opponent's point off to your right side

Thank you!

Daggers come out very often when both combatants are experienced and when they both have daggers. Sometimes we don't go to them quickly we're working on fighting with another weapon, but they are common

@@corrugatedcavalier5266 your one of the few people ives seen be able to implement any of fiores dagger plays

@@TheVanguardFighter one does have to practice them, but I think they're a little easier sometimes in armor because there are only certain places one can be struck effectively

Nah. His point is in the mail but he there was no force/travel on it and wasn't breaking my structure either. Some people may have called that, though.

Glad you liked it! There's plenty more already on the channel as well!

Thanks! Yea, they're from Fior di Battaglia, early 5th century

Thank you for the kind words! It's certainly a fun hobby.

@@corrugatedcavalier5266 indeed it is a fun hobby, and i am feeling more and more like i need to pick it up

Haha thank you. We're near NYC and also have a contingent in Connecticut.

I love your comments and long grip techniques.

@dequitem thank you! Long grip stuff is still something I'm working on, especially transferring from there to short sword/half sword in a fluid way.

Yep, their partisan & rotella stuff helps with my practical interpretation of earlier styles since we have very little info. Marozzo has a grip change off of a feinted throw, which is pretty fun.

Thanks! I'm not sure precisely what you mean. So fingernails and thumb still pointed in toward the face, or more like a sword grip but held over the shoulder?

@@corrugatedcavalier5266 So, rather than a hammer grip (held tighting in the hand), hold the spear as if you're going to throw it but thrust forwards. Because you have a looser grip, the spear can move around more flexibly in the hand - I think this is the same way people who spear fish use the overhand grip.

@@BorninPurple yep, I do that at times. It's just very difficult to see subtle grip changes on video and while wearing somewhat thick leather gloves.

@@corrugatedcavalier5266 Ah, fair enough

Yeah I get what you mean. There I would have to have it even a bit further out to get it considerably to the other side of my body, but it's close. I'm familiar with what you're describing, by the way. There's a technique in Fiore spear in armor (meaning two hands on the spear, however) that's very similar that basically nobody tries. I worked on it quite a bit and got an action to work from it, though it was the follow up that hit. Check "Trials of Sir Goffredo pt. 1, Spear" if you want to check it out. Anyhow, I'm always going to keep trying stuff and finding different angles of attack.

100%!

Completely dignified

Just a limitation of equipment right now. I'm going to start making an aspis/hoplon in about a week

There certainly will be! Check out the videos that show up as cards, or take a look a few videos down on my channel and you'll see some more.

Nope! It's disc armor/kardiophylax. More common for Italians of the time but it seems that Greeks used it earlier

@@corrugatedcavalier5266 I recently tried spear and shield, it felt very unwieldy. Looking at you guys, I guess its just the way it is like. Though I feel more secure and precise with a shorter spear

It certainly works! I used it basically the whole time. I have a video on why it works, if you haven't seen it.

Thanks for the kind words! I don't mind disagreement as long as people are being cool.

Thanks! The spear shafts are 7 feet. The tips add maybe another 6 inches.

@@corrugatedcavalier5266 Thank you! I'm going to build a foam one for practice. May I ask the weight and relatively where your center of balance is?

@@TheEpicDartfish I honestly don't know. They're pretty light as they're rattan. Center of balance is roughly the middle, which is probably about appropriate for archaic age spears. It seems classical spears started being a bit more rear weighted. It does take some practice to hold it behind the point of balance, but it can be done.

Not what we're going for here, but would be a fun matchup!

Huh, I had never considered that aspect!

Cool, watch some of our sparring videos, then!

@@corrugatedcavalier5266 well then, i will.

Yep, I intend to agree with all of that. Im formation fighting, did you ise a sharp sauroter? Just curious. As to the power, the paper mentioned is an actual studymeasurimg depth of penetratuon and force in joules from multiple participants of different builds and physicality. Overhand/javelin grip was found to have more force and more depth of penetration in all fields. Now, does that matter? If you're hitting unarmored flesh, no. Otherwise it certainly could. But yes,I agree both have their place.

@@corrugatedcavalier5266 no, definitely didn’t use a sharp sauroter, as this was full contact sparring, and I like to think I’m not that much of an idiot! 😝 As for the force of impact from spear thrusts, someone really needs to put together a few sets of armor and just go to town on them with an accurate dory. Maybe someday I’ll have academic funding and get to do that! But I can confidently say that even with training-safe equipment, a decent jab from a spear to the head was more than enough to drop me like a marionette with the strings cut! 🤣

@@danielavetta2341 Gotcha, I wasn't sure if it was sparring or more like, experimentation. Yes, please don't use sharp sauroter in sparring haha

I saw! I follow them on Twitter/X

A lot of people have said it doesn't work or is only an artistic convention. I've tried what you mention. I don't like it personally, but sure, you could technically do it.

@@corrugatedcavalier5266 We're looking at artwork of people who practiced this a lot more than any of us. If we can manage a technique, they can likely do it better. If we can't manage a technique, it's possibly because we don't have the training, fitness, or equipment for it. The way you're exploring the possibilities through examples from artwork is amazing, as it shows us some of the possibilities available to our ancestors. The way you're saying some things aren't possible for others to do because you don't like them personally is wrong; you can't conclude that from this experience.

@themekahippie991 I didn't say it was impossible. In fact I said the opposite. I consider the drawbacks of attempting the action as outweighing the potential benefits. Either way, you would need a significant grip change unless you are using a drastically rear weighted spear.

​@@corrugatedcavalier5266 "I didn't say it was impossible." "Parrying with underhand grip is very difficult, you can only attack from the right side of your body..." You pretty clearly stated there and at 1:20 that you didn't think it was possible to do "unless you do something really weird". Instead, what you should say is, "With my current training, fitness, and equipment, I'm unable to reproduce these techniques, but that doesn't necessarily mean they can't be done or are infeasible." The same way folks should stop bashing overhand techniques just because they don't understand them, you should stop bashing underhand techniques just because you don't understand it. No one here is a trained warrior lol, no one has the expertise to say a technique is just bad or even to say which are better. All you can say is, "Yea, I can get this to work for me." Keep it positive.

@themekahippie991 Show me. I've never seen anyone do that and have never seen that technique described in a historical source. I'm not sure what specific athletic components you believe I lack to perform the technique.

Yeah, it was a bit noisy. Might be time for a lapel mic!

@@corrugatedcavalier5266 or presenting in room or smth