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The Orthodox Albanian
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Добавлен 6 дек 2019
Eastern Orthodox Christian | A bibliophile sharing his musings on Christian and Islamic theology and philosophy, with a particular interest in Islam and its historical context, as well as part of the counter-jihad movement
Feel free to contact me on Discord with your reading recommendations: @theorthodoxalbanian
Feel free to contact me on Discord with your reading recommendations: @theorthodoxalbanian
Does aseity need to be grounded intrinsically? (Dr. Joshua Sijuwade vs. Dr. Steven Nemes)
Is aseity an intrinsic or extrinsic property? Are extrinsic properties essential?
Dr. Joshua Sijuwade debates Dr. Steven Nemes on whether God’s property of aseity must be grounded by something intrinsic in God (specifically, an additional property of “self-existence”) or if this is superfluous, as self-existence is a reducible property.
Even if this additional property is to be possessed essentially, does this logically entail, under MT, that the Son and the Holy Spirit do not share in the same essence as God the Father?
Dr. Joshua Sijuwade explains that this is not the case because there are two forms of essence-particular (or individual) and general (or kind). It can be argued, if needed...
Dr. Joshua Sijuwade debates Dr. Steven Nemes on whether God’s property of aseity must be grounded by something intrinsic in God (specifically, an additional property of “self-existence”) or if this is superfluous, as self-existence is a reducible property.
Even if this additional property is to be possessed essentially, does this logically entail, under MT, that the Son and the Holy Spirit do not share in the same essence as God the Father?
Dr. Joshua Sijuwade explains that this is not the case because there are two forms of essence-particular (or individual) and general (or kind). It can be argued, if needed...
Просмотров: 308
Видео
Is the Father’s existence dependent on another? (Dr. Joshua Sijuwade vs. Dr. Khalil Andani)
Просмотров 3622 месяца назад
Does Monarchial Trinitarianism (MT) entail a “contingent” (capital ‘G’) God who depends on another for His existence? Dr. Joshua Sijuwade and Dr. Khalil Andani debate the question of aseity and how the analytical literature has treated this issue (for example, the thesis of "Origins Essentialism" is mentioned). This demonstrates that an extrinsic property in an entity can also be an essential p...
How do Trinitarians differentiate from polytheists? (Dr. Joshua Sijuwade)
Просмотров 9213 месяца назад
A common objection to Trinitarians is how one can differentiate between a Trinitarian and a polytheist. Dr. Joshua Sijuwade explains that monarchial Trinitarianism affirms “one God” alone and identifies this as the person of the Father, based on being a “fundamental” divine person. But what about the Greek gods, who were non-fundamental yet still considered “divine”? Are Trinitarians inconsiste...
The Cappadocian vs. Latin Model of the Trinity (Dr. Joshua Sijuwade)
Просмотров 4,4 тыс.3 месяца назад
“God, unbegotten, the Father, and one begotten Lord, his Son, referred to as God when he is mentioned separately, but Lord when he is named in conjunction with the Father, the one term on account of his nature, the other on account of his monarchy; and one Holy Spirit proceeding, or, if you will, going forth from the Father…” (St. Gregory Nazianzen, Oration, 25.15). Dr. Joshua Sijuwade guides u...
Is the corruption of the Bible a Qur’anic view? (Dr. Gabriel Reynolds)
Просмотров 1,7 тыс.3 месяца назад
What are the “Torah” and “Gospel” according to the Qur’an? Is there textual evidence showing that the Qur’an possesses knowledge of both of these scriptures? Historical accounts between Muslim and Christian rulers, as well as the hadith, are also discussed. Do they support the notion of textual corruption, and do scholars find these accounts reliable? Dr. Gabriel Reynolds, along with Luis Dizon...
Why MUST there be more than one divine person and relation in God? (Seraphim Hamilton)
Просмотров 7658 месяцев назад
“God has reason to create a beautiful inanimate world-that is, a beautiful physical universe. Whatever God creates will be a good product; and so any physical universe that he creates will be beautiful, as are humans and animals. Consider the stars and planets moving in orderly ways, and plants growing from seed into colourful flowers and reproducing themselves. Even if no one apart from God hi...
Is it a logical impossibility for God to have a Son? (Surah Az-Zukhruf 81)
Просмотров 5089 месяцев назад
Muslims argue that if the Son is truly God, then the eternal begetting of the Son from God the Father would necessitate the Son's “dependence” on God the Father, negating His deity. However, the logic in Surah Az-Zukhruf 81, where Allah's "Son" is still worthy of worship despite being a distinct person with a relationship of origin, challenges the argument that inclusion or derivation from God ...
Salafi Islam’s methodology in understanding verses about Allah
Просмотров 725Год назад
This short video exposes the ad-hoc methodology of Salafis when it comes to understanding verses that speak about Allah. Why is it that some apparent meanings of verses that speak about Allah can be accepted, even if the same meaning is also shared with that known by creation, while Salafi scholars find it proper to negate some other apparent meanings (like in Surah al-Mulk 16)? For example, in...
Next Islam (The Muslim Skeptic/Haqiqatjou) Vs. Orthodox Christianity (Jay Dyer) debate?
Просмотров 6 тыс.2 года назад
Daniel Haqiqatjou’s recent comments on being open to having a discussion/debate with Orthodox Christian apologist Jay Dyer. Jay Dyer’s livestream: ruclips.net/video/LYyu7Xb9_RQ/видео.html Daniel Haqiqatjou when previously asked to debate Jay Dyer: ibb.co/CbFqs1f #islam #orthodoxy #debate
Did Muhammad receive his revelation on Mount Hira? (Dr. Sean Anthony)
Просмотров 2,1 тыс.2 года назад
Prof. Sean W. Anthony goes through an example of a hagiographical trope that structured the famous cave-revelation story of Muhammad. Muhammad’s revelation beginning in the Cave of Hira is reported in the sirah and ahadith (both deemed authentic by Islamic standards). This may be one example of many connections that exist between the Islamic tradition and pre-Islamic Arabic hagiographical tradi...
Vigilantism and Islam (Responding to Dawah Apologist Imran)
Просмотров 5312 года назад
Are ex-Muslims safe living in the West? We will see how, according to the Islamic tradition, the hadd (punishment) for riddah (apostasy) can be implemented upon them by ANY Muslim. There doesn’t have to be an imam with tamkin (power) over a given land for the huddud (punishments) to be implemented. For if this was the case, then the hadd (punishment) for the ex-Muslims that live in the West wou...
Mystery and seemingly “difficult” Islamic beliefs (Responding to Dawah Apologist Abbas)
Просмотров 5482 года назад
Are Muslims consistent when rejecting the divine claims of Christianity? Let’s see… Besides, even if we were to concede that the Holy Trinity and incarnation are logically incoherent (which we of course do not think is the case), Islam still stands as being false from a historical standpoint. This is because according to established historical facts, the crucifixion of Christ did occur, the ear...
Who are the belligerent non-Muslims (أهل الحرب أو الحربيون)?
Просмотров 3782 года назад
Do non-Muslims become belligerent if they fight against the Muslims with arms (and other means), or is the ‘kufr and shirk’ that is present in them sufficient as a reason for the shedding of their blood? In this video, we will learn that not every non-Muslim is seen as being a mu’aahid or musta’man (protected non-Muslim), but in fact a muhaarib or harbi (person of war). We will also learn what ...
PROBLEMS with Athari and Ash’ari views of the Qur'an
Просмотров 5622 года назад
These are highlights from Prof. Gabriel S. Reynolds’ and Dr. Javad T. Hashmi’s interview on the channel, “Exploring the Quran and the Bible” where they both discuss Muhammad Ahmad Khalafallaah’s dissertation entitled, “Al-Fann al-Qaṣaṣī fī al-Qur’ān al-Karīm” (The Narrative Art in the Holy Qur’ān). The full interview can be watched here: ruclips.net/video/y_cnPkIZ3wE/видео.html If the Hanbali m...
Was Christ crucified according to Islamic sources?
Просмотров 4692 года назад
Was Christ crucified according to Islamic sources?
Can da’if (weak) ahadith be accepted?
Просмотров 2902 года назад
Can da’if (weak) ahadith be accepted?
How the most “authentic” ahadith CONTRADICT the Qur’an!
Просмотров 2702 года назад
How the most “authentic” ahadith CONTRADICT the Qur’an!
God's essence, natural attributes, and attributes that relate to the aeon (St. Gregory Palamas)
Просмотров 4712 года назад
God's essence, natural attributes, and attributes that relate to the aeon (St. Gregory Palamas)
Is the 1924 Cairo Edition a reliable edition of the ʿUthmanic text? (Dr. Marijn van Putten)
Просмотров 1,3 тыс.2 года назад
Is the 1924 Cairo Edition a reliable edition of the ʿUthmanic text? (Dr. Marijn van Putten)
Earth will become… what? (Shaykh Salih al-Fawzan)
Просмотров 4922 года назад
Earth will become… what? (Shaykh Salih al-Fawzan)
Original Sin and Islam (Responding to Dawah Apologist Hashim)
Просмотров 4662 года назад
Original Sin and Islam (Responding to Dawah Apologist Hashim)
Islam’s MISTAKE on something so SIMPLE…
Просмотров 5312 года назад
Islam’s MISTAKE on something so SIMPLE…
Orthodox Christian inquirer asks Hamza if he would ever debate Jay Dyer or Kabane
Просмотров 2,2 тыс.2 года назад
Orthodox Christian inquirer asks Hamza if he would ever debate Jay Dyer or Kabane
Theophany of Christ in the Qur’an (Dr. Sean Anthony)
Просмотров 4032 года назад
Theophany of Christ in the Qur’an (Dr. Sean Anthony)
Possible texts of influence for the Qur’an? (Dr. Robert Hoyland)
Просмотров 4472 года назад
Possible texts of influence for the Qur’an? (Dr. Robert Hoyland)
Islam is in discontinuity regarding God (Jake Brancatella and Dr. Joshua Sijuwade)
Просмотров 7262 года назад
Islam is in discontinuity regarding God (Jake Brancatella and Dr. Joshua Sijuwade)
The “chain” of authorities in the Islamic accounts (Dr. Robert Hoyland)
Просмотров 8303 года назад
The “chain” of authorities in the Islamic accounts (Dr. Robert Hoyland)
I thought the Rabbi is a believer in Yeshua. I will pray for him.
Here is an honest conversation of Scripture. Never heard honest teaching like this from the Jewish faith. Praise God.
interesting... we should have a collective of knowledge in which everyone can access the sources and from that sources we have different understanding and perspective.
From Kosovo Katholik I Love ❤ my orthodox Brother 🇦🇱✝️🙏 Jesus is King ❤️
Ако двојазичноста целосно се имплементира во РМ тогаш ќе треба и на албански јазик да се пее по црквите и манастирите во нашата. Како што тече времето, во македонските цркви ќе бараат и молитви на албански да се слушаат од страна на верниците. 😇🇲🇰💓☦️⛪🇦🇱
6,7 %
GEZUAR KRISHTLINDJET GJITH ORTHODHOKSET KUDO ,,,GREQI ALBANI SERBI BULLGARI ,,,,,,,❤❤❤❤❤ GREKORTHODHOKS BIZANT =GREK ALBANI ORTHODHOKS ,,,KIRJE LEJSON AMIN ,,❤❤❤❤❤
ALBANIAN ORTHODOX = GREK ORTHODOX,❤❤❤❤❤,,,,,,
Daniel Boyarin is brilliant.
This mean is not a believer 😂
This is true.
He said BC and not BCE! W rabbi! 13:44
There is a difference between causation, grounding and supervenience. In philosophy these are well-known distinctions. The difference between the Son and the universe is not merely temporality. The Son is a necessary being, i.e. he exist in all possible world (there is no possibility for his non-existence) and he lacks any beginning. But there is a difference between a *necessity* and *dependence* . The Son is a necessary being independent *of all creation* , but he is not independent of the *Father* . To take an analogy. God’s omnipotence is an essential property of God (God could not fail to have it), yet the property of omnipotence is dependent on God’s essence, that is God is omnipotent *by virtue* of his divine essence. Likewise while the Son is a necessary being and divine he exist by virtue of the Fatherhood of of the Divine Father. To take a more concrete analogy. The sun is not the same as its rays, and its rays exist by virtue of the sun, still there is no sun without rays, and you cannot have a sun without rays. Thus, the Son is by virtue of the Father, but you will not have the Father without the Son.
Jesus siting on Gods throne means that their authority is precisely the same. God will eventually give a throne to Jesus.
Hey I'm new to Orthodoxy & could you pls explain why aseity is extrinsic and not intrinsic? because in my opinion, both the essence and the hypostasis of the Father can be considered to be ase since the essence of the Father is also uncaused. I get how ab alio is extrinsic but can you pls explain why aseity is also extrinsic.
Oh Zoti yne Jezu Krisht, na mbro dhe na beko te gjithe neve, popullit tend! Na udhehiq drejt rruges tende pa interes dhe me dashuri! Oh Biri Perendise, hajde sa me pare dhe triumfo mbi erresiren! Na fal mekatet dhe na udhehiq o i premtuar, Jezu Krisht, Mesiah dhe i dashuri yne! Zoti ju bekoftë te gjitheve!❤️☦️🇦🇱
I love you so much my Albanian Orthodhox chants, Greetings from Albanian from Dardania/ Kosova. Ju dua shum Shqipetar Orthodhoks, Kenge Orthodhokse, Psalmet qe jan te njejta ne Islam gjithashtu. E dua Kulturen Bizantine, rrenjet e Shqiptareve jan Bizanti. Femijeve te mi i frymezoi me Kenge Arberore Bizantine Shqiptare, duke me shkuer mendsh, qe dikur ishem orthodhoks ne shpirt e zember. Edhepse ne fillim pata zemerim/ dyshim me Greket qe po na rrembejne Orthodhoksine ne vitet 1990,mirepo frytet duken, edhe me duet te lavderoi Anastas Janulatosin gjithsesi, qe ndihmoi per ringritjen e Orthodhoksis Shqiptare, me von pashe qe vet kisha Greke ne krye ka Arberorin/ Arvanitin, Joanin. Kshuqe na e jena Grekun, Greket e kan tanin, Joanin. Jena vllazen, po ea e spjegojua disave. Jam praktikues i fejes Islane me bindje, por e dashuroi gjuhen Shqipe Kulturen tone Bizantine, Orthodhokse. Bravo
Albanian ILLYRO-PELASGE the most beautiful Langue ❤❤
THESE THINGS THEY CAN BE REVEALED BY GOD. jameswiliamsblog.wordpress.com/2023/05/27/the-holy-trinity/
From his voice, you can feel the calm serenity he embodies.
Today, 08.11.2024 (21.11.2024 in the world) Father Seraphim was canonized by ROCOR in Odessa on the Synaxis of the Archangel Michael and the other Bodiless Powers: the Archangels Gabriel, Raphael, Uriel, Salaphiel, Jegudiel, Barachiel, and Jeremiel. Dear Father among the Saints, the Venerable Seraphim, Hieromonk of Platina pray for us in these last days!
The Word became flesh so the our flesh may become the word... Thank you Dr. Boyarin.
is this his voice?
Yes
Fantastic exhortation 🤝🤝🤝
He passed away years ago he is with the Lord Jesus Christ and The Father.
Thats a new way to say "Im scared shitless"
Are there three subjects, "I"s, in God or one subject, one "I", when he/they refers to themself?
Thos man is a fake academic ...Muslim apologetics should refute & expose this clown
💯Envy is even worse than Pride, according to Exorcists ✝️ this wonderful Saint 💖sees the Whole Picture from Beginning
Where do U get Ur nonsense from no Muslim ever says there's a tablet thats eternal alongside Allah.thats nonsense.attributes r not persons.does Ur attribute separate from U n become something U can touch n see?U r nuts
Nuk na duhet as kisha as xhamia na duhet njerzillik për njëritjetrin
Românii și alabezii = frați de sânge...
Please allow me to share these verses of the Quran in which God describes Himself. Be blessed. For clarification, Allah is the Arabic name of the one and only god, the Creator. It is also the name of God in Aramaic, the language of Jesus pbuh, and it is with this name that Jesus addressed God. Quran (2:255) “Allah - there is no deity except Him, the Ever-Living, the All-Sustaining. Neither slumber overtakes Him nor sleep. To Him belongs whatever is in the heavens and whatever is on the earth. Who is it that can intercede with Him except by His permission? He knows what is before them and what is behind them; while they grasp nothing of His knowledge, except what He wills. His Kursiyy (Chair) encompasses the Heavens and the Earth, and their preservation does not tire Him. He is the All-High, the Supreme. (2:256) Let there be no compulsion in religion, for the truth stands out clearly from falsehood, so whoever renounces false gods and believes in Allah has certainly grasped the firmest, unfailing handhold. And Allah is The All-Hearing, All-Knowing”. (2:257) Allah is the Ultimate Guardian of those who have attained faith; He brings them out of the darkness(es) into the light, while those who have denied-their guardians are the false masters; they bring them out of the light into the darkness(es) . Those are the fellows of the Fire; therein they abide. Chapter 112 of the Quran In the name of Allah, the Most Compassionate, the Most Merciful. Say: “He is Allah, the One and Only; Allah the Besought by all, needing none. He begot no one nor was He begotten, and never has there been to Him anyone equivalent.” Quran (42:11) “[He is] Creator of the heavens and the earth. He has made for you from yourselves, mates, and among the cattle, mates; He multiplies you thereby. There is nothing like unto Him, and He is the All-Hearing, the All-Seeing.” Quran (2:186) “And when My servants ask you, concerning Me - indeed I am near. I respond to the invocation of the supplicant when he calls upon Me. So let them respond to Me and believe in Me that they may be [rightly] guided. Chapter 19 (Mary) 77-98 77 Have you seen ˹O Prophet˺ the one who rejects Our revelations yet boasts, “I will definitely be granted wealth and children. 78 Has he obtained knowledge of the unseen, or has he taken a pledge from the Most Compassionate? 79 No! We will record what he says and extend for him from the punishment extensively. 80 We shall inherit from him all that he speaks of and he will come to Us all alone. 81 They have taken other gods instead of Allah that they may be a source of strength for them. 82 By no means! They shall soon deny their worship and shall become their adversaries instead. 83 Do you ˹O Prophet˺ not see that We have sent the devils against the disbelievers, constantly inciting them? 84 So do not be in haste against them, for indeed We are counting down their days. 85 On the Day We will gather the righteous to the Most Merciful as a delegation 86 and We shall drive the guilty ones to Hell as a thirsty herd. 87 None will have the right to intercede, except those who have taken a covenant from the Most Compassionate. 88 And they say, "The Most Merciful has begotten a son." 89 You have certainly made an outrageous claim, 90 The heavens almost rupture therefrom and the earth split open and the mountains collapse in devastation 91 That they attribute to the Most Merciful a son. 92 And it is not appropriate for the Most Merciful to beget a son. 93 Everyone who is in the Heavens and the Earth will come to The All-Merciful as a servant; 94 He has enumerated them and counted them precisely. 95 Each of them is coming to Him on Resurrection Day individually. 96 As for those who believe and do good, the Most Compassionate will ˹certainly˺ bless them with ˹genuine˺ love. 97 So indeed, We have made it (the Quran) easy in your tongue, that you may give glad tidings to the ones who were mindful (of God) and warn with it a hostile people. 98 And how many a generation have We annihilated before them? Can you feel a single one of them or hear from them the slightest whisper? And Quran (17:110-111) “Say, "Call upon Allah or call upon the Most Merciful [ar-Raḥmān]. Whichever [name] you call - to Him belong the best names." And do not recite [too] loudly in your prayer or [too] quietly but seek between that an [intermediate] way. And say, "Praise to Allah, who has not taken a son and has had no partner in [His] dominion and has no [need of a] protector out of weakness; and glorify Him with [great] glorification."”
What the number of verse?
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The premise being advanced by Dr. Steven Nemes is the Eunomian Premise (EP): In other words, he is affirming the following: God’s essential intrinsic properties entail the extrinsic property of being a se. This negates the following that: God’s broadly essential intrinsic properties, and being ab alio, taken together, are compossible. In other words, there would be no contradiction between having all of God’s essential intrinsic properties, and having the property of being ab alio. The EP says much more than merely that aseity is broadly essential to God. Everybody in the argument admits that. Rather, it must state that, in addition to aseity being broadly essential to God, there is also an entailment relation between God’s intrinsic essential properties and God’s extrinsic essential property of aseity. It is not just that God has these essential intrinsic properties, such as God’s nature and His perfections of being omnipotent, etc., but God has a property of being a se essentially (which is agreed to by everybody), but also that there is this entailment relation existing between the intrinsic and the extrinsic properties. But what reason is there to think that? Remember, this is absolutely necessary to make the EP work. The unitarian will want to claim that only God is a se in any possible world. Nobody wants to affirm that other things besides God are a se. And they probably do not want to affirm that there may be a possible world where anything other than God could be a se. But that just means that aseity will identify God uniquely (it will always identify God) in any possible world. And this is just another way of saying that it is God’s hypostatic property. In other words, the unitarian is committed to saying that aseity is one of God’s hypostatic properties. But once we grant that, why should we need aseity to also be part of God’s ousia in addition to that? I.e., it is one of God’s hypostatic properties that uniquely identifies God, but it is also part of God’s kind essence too. This is nothing but a completely invalid move! Plucking aseity into God’s ousia in addition to God’s hypostasis would be superfluous. It would also be superfluous to add an entailment relation between the ousia (or any other intrinsic properties) and the property of aseity. (Think about these sets of properties: God has a set of essential intrinsic properties-they are all essential to God, so God must have them-and then there is this essential extrinsic property of aseity, so God must have that. Now I insert an entailment relation-what does that do for me? Aseity was already essential to God anyway.) There are also positive reasons to reject the EP. Ousia (“kind essences”) are generally agreed to be intrinsic. By definition, the ancient way of thinking about nature is that it must be intrinsic, and nature is what gives a thing its intrinsic causal powers. Most philosophers will say that a thing’s “kind essence” is intrinsic to it, and that is just what an ousia is. They are plausibly taken to be individuated by the causal powers and dispositions they bestow upon their bearers, which are themselves intrinsic. There are also arguments from contemporary philosophy that support this view, such as those by Dr. Sydney Shoemaker, who is famous for arguing that properties in general must be individuated by the causal powers they bestow upon their bearers, and his argument would even more certainly apply to natures (as we are using the term). In fact, St. Gregory of Nyssa in “Ad Eustathium” makes essentially the same argument as Dr. Shoemaker, but specifically about natures/ousiai. Dr. Shoemaker’s argument can be summarised as follows: The way I identify, say, the property of being red, is that if a thing has that property, it causes a certain kind of sensation in my experience when I look at it. On the other hand, I identify the property of being green by the fact that it causes a different kind of sensation in my experience when I look at it. Suppose it were possible for the property of being green (not like a green thing turning red, or a red thing turning green, but suppose it were possible for the property of being green to start causing the kind of sensation a person normally has when they see red, and likewise with the property of red starting to cause the sensation a person normally has when they see green). If that is possible, then a person cannot tell whether something is red or green just by looking at it. But, of course, I can tell whether something is red or green by looking at it. If a red tomato starts looking green to me, or a green avocado starts looking red, I would not say that red started causing the same experience in me that green used to, and that green started causing the same experience in me that red used to.
In other words, the tomato, for example, is still red, but the colour red has changed what experience it causes in me, or the avocado is still green, but the colour green has changed what experience it causes in me. Rather, I would say that the tomato turned green and that the avocado turned red (or I would say that my eyes got some kind of affliction where they started perceiving colours differently). But I would not blame it on the colour and say that it changed! In other words, the way we recognise one property from another is by their causal powers. Another example: Suppose I have a piece of metal and I want to know whether it is copper. How would I tell? Presumably, I would do things like look at its colour, see if it is ductile and malleable, heat it up until I find its boiling point, run electricity through it to find out its resistance, run chemical tests on it to see how it reacts to other substances, and so on. In other words, I would examine what all causal powers and dispositions it has. If it possesses all of the causal powers and dispositions of copper, then I would conclude it is copper. Suppose, on the other hand, that it did not have the same colour, boiling point, resistance, etc. Would I conclude, “I guess sometimes copper just does not do all of those things”? Or would I conclude, “This must not be copper”? Clearly, I would not say that the nature of copper has changed. Rather, I would say that this thing does not have the nature of copper. Because, again, I just identify a nature by the causal properties that it bestows upon its bearer. This is what determines its nature. St. Gregory of Nyssa makes a similar argument in “Ad Eustathium”: “But they contend that this title (‘God’) sets forth the nature of that to which it is applied; that the nature of the Spirit is not a nature shared in common with that of the Father and of the Son; and that, for this reason, the Spirit ought not to be allowed the common use of the name.” Here, St. Gregory of Nyssa says that his opponents think that the title “God” specifies a nature, and because of that, the Holy Spirit cannot be called “God” because the Holy Spirit has a different nature from the Father and the Son. His response is as follows: “It is, therefore, for them to show by what means they have perceived this variation in the nature [if it is being claimed that the Holy Spirit does not have the same nature as the Father and the Son, then it has to be shown what the difference is in their nature]. If it were indeed possible for the divine nature to be contemplated in itself, could what is proper to it and what is foreign to it be discovered by means of visible things? We should then certainly stand in no need of words or other tokens to lead us to the apprehension of the object of the enquiry. But the divine nature is too exalted to be perceived as objects of enquiry are perceived, and about things which are beyond our knowledge we reason on probable evidence. We are, therefore, of necessity guided in the investigation of the divine nature by its operations [“energeia” in Greek, i.e., its activities or causal powers that the divine nature has]. Suppose we observe the operations of the Father, of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost to be different from one another; we shall then conjecture, from the diversity of the operations, that the operational natures are also different [he is making the same argument as Shoemaker. The way that we recognise what nature a thing has is by the activities (or causal powers) that it has and the kinds of powers that it has to act in the world]. For it is impossible that things which are distinct as regards their nature should be associated as regards the form of their operations [in other words, if a person is going to say that things have two distinct natures, they cannot do all the same things. If I found something that has the same boiling point as copper, the same resistance as copper, and the same colour as copper, and it reacts to everything the same way-if it does everything that copper does-that is copper! I cannot say that this is this other kind of thing that just apparently happens to do all the exact same stuff as copper. How do you know it is not actually copper? If it does everything that copper does, then what is the difference?]; fire does not freeze; ice does not warm; difference of natures implies difference of the operations proceeding from them. Grant, then, that we perceive the operation of Father, Son, and Holy Ghost to be one and the same, in no respect showing difference of variation; from this identity of operation, we necessarily infer the unity of the nature.” Therefore, how we tell if two things have “the same nature” is whether they have the same causal powers.
But if extrinsic properties could be part of, or a necessary condition for, having a certain kind essence (“ousia”), then we would have no good way to recognise the members of various kinds just by examining the individuals (i.e., their causal powers) themselves. If extrinsic properties play a role in kind essences, an apparent cow, say, could fail to be an actual cow because of the way it came into existence in the past (which I can’t now examine) or because of the present existence and situation of something external to the cow (which I may not be able to examine). Imagine I find an animal, and I am not sure whether it is a horse, cow, or some other animal, so I take it to a veterinarian and ask what kind of animal this is. If extrinsic properties played a role in that, then they would not be able to tell. They would look at it and say that it is this thing that looks, acts, and does everything exactly like a cow, but that they cannot know if it indeed is a cow because they do not know how it came into existence. Maybe it is a se cow and it was never created! And if so, then that is not really a cow, but some other species of thing. That is just not how we think about things. Normally, we believe we can tell whether something is a cow just by looking at it-in other words, merely by examining its intrinsic properties. But if something external to the cow determines whether it is a cow or not, then I would have to be able to find that external thing. St. Gregory of Nyssa makes the same point in his analogy of three flames in “On the Holy Spirit, Against the Macedonians”: “It is as if a man were to see a separate flame burning on three torches (and we will suppose that the third flame is caused by that of the first being transmitted to the middle and then kindling the end torch), and were to maintain that the heat in the first exceeded that of the others; that that next it showed a variation from it in the direction of the less; and that the third could not be called fire at all, though it burned and shone just like fire and did everything that fire does.” The idea is that the first flame is really, truly, fire. But the second one is kind of a fire; it is a little colder than normal fire, it’s not going to burn as brightly, etc. The third flame is not even really a fire-it is something else-because it came all the way down this line. Even though it actually looks like fire, it will burn your hand like fire and does everything that fire does. That just does not make sense because the origin of the fire is extrinsic. Besides the fact that one is extrinsic and the other is intrinsic, the causal origin of something has nothing to do with its causal powers. Whether the first flame came from another flame or it just always was there since the beginning of time, it still does the same things-in this case, burning. If another flame is lit off that one, and that is where it came from, it still burns things. There is no difference in their causal powers, depending on where they came from. Suppose there comes a day when people can assemble a cow in a laboratory-in other words, build a cow from the ground up, resulting in its existence through a very different way. Regardless of how it comes into existence, it would still be a cow; these extrinsic features would not matter. To conclude, the EP states that two things can differ with respect to their ousiai based on the extrinsic property of aseity (or, in general, their “source”). But our ordinary practices of determining the nature of the ousia of a thing make no reference to extrinsic properties, but only to causal powers. Therefore, the EP conflicts with our ordinary practices in this respect, and indeed, with common sense. Think about it: If I observe a building on fire and call the fire brigade, urging them to respond, and they ask, “Why? Is there a fire?” I would not respond by saying, “There is something that exactly resembles a fire, consuming the building in a manner akin to a fire. Smoke is emanating from it, it generates intense heat, and it produces bright light. Everything happening looks like fire, but I don't really know if it actually is a fire. It is conceivable that the building has been on fire since the beginning of time; it could potentially be due to a lightning strike or arson. Therefore, I cannot determine whether this is a fire or merely something that looks exactly like fire.” Nobody does that. The EP conflicts with our ordinary beliefs about the individuation of kinds and our ordinary practices in classifying things (also with how a lot of philosophers think about this, too). How, then, could anybody sensibly navigate through the world if you thought that, in order to tell whether something was a fire, a cow, etc., you first had to go into some research about its history? Frankly, it also just goes against the definition of nature as understood by the ancients.
While I disagree with quite a bit of Daniel he has some really great talks with fabulous insight.
Im confused, is Dr. Sijuwade is RC, Uniate, or Orthodox? I can't find anything on what he is.
@@harvestcrops3983 he say he goes to a catholic church but his belief is actually more orthodox
The Catholic Church dogma is Allah is the true god creator of the universe. Why would a catholic debate a Muslim. They both worship Allah.
@@kennynoNope Come on! Catholics aren't unitarians, nor is Dr. Sijuwade
Is it proper to state the son was caused by the Father?
Eternal He is caused There was no time there was the Father that was not the Son.
@@kennynoNope Causation is defined as the motion from a potency to an act. The Father's begetting of the Son is not an actualization of some potency, but rather Pure Act subsisting in the peculiar modes of Begetter and Begotten. Therefore, the Son and Spirit too are said to be uncaused: for they lack passive potency and are the Pure Act in peculiar modes of subsistence. We call the Father Cause only analogically: by virtue of the asymmetric relation that obtains from the Father [Cause] to the Son [End] You may ask: okay, but is the Son still not dependent on the Father even by this logic? To this, we respond: the Father necessitates the Son to indeed be Father, or more properly, the Cause necessitates the End to indeed be Cause. While indeed the Son does not beget the Father, He is still necessary to the Father and is communicated the Perfect Essence from the Father. It is precisely because of these modes of subsistence that God is not said to depend on anything apart from Himself. To conclude, the Son is uncaused qua Essence, for He is Pure Act, and is said to be caused only by analogy because of His relation (as End) to the Father (as Cause).
@@ΓραικοςΕλληνας could you explain the “causing” I understand the son is outside of time and space. But how would you articulate an eternal cause? Thank you for the answer.
@kennynoNope actually the greek word of the fathers is αίδια that means that the Son was more then eternal with the Father . The Father is His cause in that sense . See this hard example from the created world , can the sun be with not its light? The cause of the sun's light is the disc of the sun ,but allways when there was the sun's disc was the light. Put in the position of the sun's disc the Father and where the light the Son.
@@ΓραικοςΕλληνας good answer. Thank you.
If Jesus is fully God, I don't understand the logic of his argument. If Jesus is God in a derivative sense, then Arianism would be correct! I don't see his argument or emphasis aligning with what historical writings have claimed.
No It doesn't Arianism teaches that Jesus is created or a creature But monarchia doesn't teach that The son is eternally begotten from the father (psalms 8:22) For example the sun begets the rays... But also there has never being a time the sun existed without the rays... This aligns with hebrews 1:3 where Jesus is the express image and radiance of the glory of the father. Jesus is eternal and one with the father by sharing in his essence. But the distinction between the monarchia model from other models is the fundamentality of the father He is the sole cause and all divinity flows from him but we also know the son is begotten from him in eternal sense and he communicates the divine essence to the son I don't want to go into much philosophy but it is very biblical and free from logical issues So it isn't arianism
Look how slimy these Muslims are lmao
4:JA in italics
Enjoy your work brother. One thing I'd point out is how the early church and the Fathers understood the concept of "monotheism" in comparison to how modern Muslims apply this word and any notion of "oneness" in their theology. For the early church Fathers, they used the word monarchia or monarchy when applied to God, and that was that God is one because the Father is the one God, which is what the Nicene Creed states. However, they were not unitarians and so the word "God" is also applied to the Son and Holy Spirit because God can pick out the one divine essence and nature as well. Sorry if I sound like I'm preaching to the choir. Just sharing my 2 cents.
Wonder what Sam Shamoun has to say about his take on the Trinity.
I wonder what the Bible has to say