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What is it to do with NAMROD... naram sin...!?! You people of western universities have the stupidest idea of what you people call Bronze Age... I know it's all to do with the Bible and talmud... FACT It's 2024 please stop the SHIT.

I've heard the theory that there may be an astronomical explanation for the 2200 BC collapse of the Akkadian empire: there was a period of meteor strikes over years or even decades, mostly modest-sized but with one or two major hits in the mix, that did the destruction. This would fit in with the development of an intense interest in astronomy in Akkad, with ziggurat building and the identification of planets with powerful gods. There may be a description of such an event in Genesis, the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah. If there is an validity to this this conjecture, there should be some archeological/geological evidence of it from around the world. Do you have any thoughts on this?

You forgot one very obvious fact. Human parasites typically misnomed "elites." The more egregious the grift, the harder the fall. In the US, the collapse of the current grift would benefit 90+% of the population be neutral for another 5% and be catastrophic for the top 1%.

Hm... I think the complexity model is a cop out to avoid dealing with the realities of society stratification and increased unwillingness to let go of relative status positions, and increased competition for power and status within the elites. The Western side of the Roman empire collapsed first because it generated lower fiscal revenues because it manufactured no luxury goods, it was predominantly agrarian with large landowners. Besides that, its borders were too wide and exposed. And it was subject to increased destabilization due to increased Germanic migrations. This part of the empire was subject to intense political competition, which led to several usurpation attempts (or coup attempts). The increased internal and external military conflicts led to increased taxation. At the time taxation was in the form of tax farming, not a nice thing. Tax revolts were increasingly more frequent and people preferred to sell themselves to a large landowner to have some protection from tax agents. This created a vicious cycle of decreased tax revenue and military capabilities, coupled with lack of discipline in the remaining legions. The eastern side had always been the revenue generating side of the empire, it also had more controllable borders. Since it had to deal mostly with whatever the current version of the Persian empire to its East, and mostly desert to the south. That eventually changed with time...

Please use a better font. This one is not good

I dunno the theory, it probably goes into this, but surely environmental changes alter 'what curve we are on' - a level of complexity that works very well in one environment might (if the environment changes) not work well? Given environmental changes seem to precede collapses so often, I suspect that is important. (These curves remind me of ideas in biology. I wonder if a general version of this idea of complexity vs energy to solve problems could be tested in bacteria or something, it sounds abstract enough that it should apply to systems we can test easier than civilizations)

In a way you told only half the story. After the Macedonians the story of decline and recovery still goes on for four centuries. Having the loss to the Seljuks and thereafter the Komnenos Restoration and even after the Sack of Constantinople itself you still had the Paleiologos hanging on for two centuries. In a way its amazing how long the Byzantines held on until it was just a single city, a few regions in Greece and a fort on Crimea, which was the last to fall.

What we need is a Congress of pragmatic Centris, who are willing to compromise with one another instead of ideological purist who refuse to actually govern with the understanding that there are people who do not think the way they do. Marjorie Taylor fucking Green and AOC have to be willing to sit down at a table and say I’m willing to give you this if you give me this instead of MTG‘s ridiculous theatrics , and AOC‘s rather sweet yet naïve progressiveness.

Awesome . thanks,

Good video. Unfortunately, the narrator DROPS OFF HIS VOICE at the end of each sentence. Common problem. The person making a video must concentrate on keeping their voice steady or even going up in volume as they come to the end of their sentence. As I have typical age related hearing problems I missed half the video. I have to turn on the closed captions and even cc doesn’t correctly interpret the words. Thanks for a good video. AD2

And here I was convinced that this kind of collapses were caused by human greed and stupidity fuelled by the infestation of public education by organized religion and mythology ( of any flavour ) to keep science in the darkest dungeons that could be found ( just like we are seeing in the US at the present). . . but what do I know. Nice analysis of what has happened is happening and will keep happening.

The evidence is clear: Private ownership of assets makes collapse inevitable.

So Byzantium became a feudal sate, like western and central Europe. Note: the Macedonian Renaissance was preceded in Western Europe by the Merovingian Renaissance, and the end of the "Migration Period", and concurrent with the Carolingian Empire and early Holy Roman Empire, the Viking period (including Vikings in the Byzantine navy and Varangian Guard) so a common cause is likely. Also the Islamic Caliphate went through a number of civil wars, and broke into separate states opposing each other. ... And the Khazar Khaganate emerged as a stable northern neighbor, and balancing power between the Eastern Romans and the Abbasid Caliphate. More generally, both economies and governments can benefit from a growth-recession cycle in which cut backs allow things to be rebuilt to be more efficient.

The most recent election proved that collapse is coming soon

China is also a collapse-success story. Even when conquered by outside forces, notably the Mongols and Manchus, China culturally and politically assimilated them. Even today's Communists can be seen as just another kind of Chinese dynasty in a long line of dynasties. And when China was broken up into two or more competing kingdoms, they still strived towards unification.

They all die from the samecthing. The symptoms look different. Every civilization undergoes decline in fullybliterate population. Romans were 1% when Julius tripped and fell on the knives of his fellow government officials and it shifted to Imperialism. Greece was 1% when the cult of Zeus emerged and rewrote greek history to include zeus. The USA is less than 2% fully literate (doctorate educated). The Bronze collapse was at the bottom of a 3,000 year logarithmic collapse of a female egyptian dynasty under mut and hetem. And while male culture recovered in a thousand years becomming the first kings and pharoahs and building pyramids, the sphinx marking a populist cultural spike, that declined back to a collapse limit until khufu built the great pyramid which came as a second great peak collapsing soon after straight into the bronze age crash. Djoser was not pre khufu. He was post bronze age collapse. His cultural peak can only have come by faking the construction of a pyramid. But from there he declined to the age of cleopatra.

Interesting return to citizen farmers as soldiers , similar to the early Roman base of soldiery (soldierary?)

Have u ever studied complex systems theory? Given your interest in the collapse of complex societies it might be interesting if you havent already

You know, what you speak of about the Macedonian Renaissance indicates an increase in complexity again. Is it possible that the Eastern Romans final collapse was due to an ill-timed increase in complexity?. Like for example, letting provinces pay in gold rather than manpower to support the army?. Can you do an episode on this?.

3:17 U missd Nepos' Dalmatia.

A brave thesis and boldly put but cramming so much sociopolitical history into a few minutes of video and trying to apply what we observe to contemporary contexts is a very contentious venture indeed.. From the UK, our own empire still smoldering and delusional politics making an ugly mess of attempts to reform a once powerful, multifocal state mechanism, you might see a more realistic picture of possible outcomes for the impending implosion of the short lived and incredibly quickly grown, unsustainable gold rush empire of North American capitalism. References to Social complexity are easily projected onto past regimes, where we struggle to understand anything beyond the broadest brush strokes of government, whereas, despite attempts to cover the grime of lower orders with glamour and portraits of the rich and powerful, the work to expose government to scrutiny inevitably leads to observers who are constantly updated on the filthy machinations of local politics in particular and the more we see of the ugliness of real life. The stress fractures caused by deceitfulness and greed will out. That much we might derive from the past.😊

I think this theory only works for civilizations on premodern times

This is strictly my opinion, based on my day to day observations. I do not have any degree in History, Socio- Political Theory, or anything. The sad truth is that humans, atleast in the USA, are attracted to the negative; people may deny this, but consider the % of negative oriented movies, songs tv shows, RUclips videos, etc. Then dicreetly eavesdrop in coffe shops, restaurants and public transit. Really listen to your "nearest and dearest". Perhaps a fortunate few will encounter a low percentage of negativity; another fortunate % encounter negativity but are able to deflect it so it leaves them unscarred. But then,, there is the majority who get mired in the morass of cultural negativity (remember, we just came through our cultures institutionalized " negativity festival," which comes around every 4 years. And finally, there are significant numbers of people who seek out the negative. It is no longer possible to go through a day without hearing someone refer to their diagnosis (often made by nontrained acquaintances); "being on the spectrum" has become a common shibboleth in this country. And ads for drugs, which they fail to state for what condition, yet admonish "Ask your doctor!" I am convinced that humans have a self-pity gene, and in some ways, it is for our survival, but today, it is out of control. I am not advocating for the stoicism of the 1940s and 1950s, but enough. Focusing on the negative just feeds the monster. Yes, life is very tough, but there is joy and beauty as well, but we are all so busy wallowing in our suffering (real and self imposed) that we miss the beauty in life.

Collapse of GOVT, and military competence. Also perhaps more importantly poor practice leads to agricultural collapse, and economic collapse. drought, and disease are wild cards.

I like the different voices. Nice touch

This channel is amazing. An actual subject matter expert puts in the work and doesn’t use AI so he can actually draw meaningful connections. This will make the world better. This is the type of channel I want to support. Subscribed.

… maga is our collapse. The straw that broke the camel’s back, if the “camel’s back” was democracy.

So basically we need either of full-on Revolution or the development of productive and sustainable Nuclear Fusion as an energy source. As a French I say why not both !

Do premodern patterns hold in modern times? Seems unlikely. The last dominant power, Great Britain, is in a parlous state compared to its height, but it is also relatively safe and wealthy. And the ones before, France and Spain, survive with their homelands intact and also integrated into broader economic and security frameworks. China has a cyclical frame for understanding its history, rise and fall and rise again, instead of the Western concept of rise and fall. Europe as a whole isn’t going anywhere; it is as united and bigger than it has ever been. America is bigger economically - its share of the global economy has been growing as Europe and China flatline - and has shown again and again it can hit a wall and completely remake itself; after the civil war; after WW2; after Vietnam; after the collapse of the Rust Belt. Modern societies are so much larger, wealthier, knowledgeable and technological than their predecessors.

Yayyy 🎉 when you called out Tainter I knew I was in the right place

Sounds like San Francisco.

Either this theory is gibberish, or you didn’t explain it well. Why doesn’t the society stop on the “optimal” level of complexity on your graph? Why does it push over the edge? And why does collapse have to occur when dropping below a certain level on the y-axis?

So feudalism is the solution ? I call dibs on being Duke of Texas.

The fact that there is a channel discussing a divorce in ancient Ugarit fills me with wonder and amazement.

Our problem are the banks.

was probably climate with the administration being a week link; which could not cope.

More volume.

Social sustainability for the win! I would be interested in learning more about ancient civilizations through the lens of social and environmental sustainability.

The Theme system of hereditary farmer-soldiers is so reminiscent of the Fubing system of T’ang Dynasty China. Byzantine is also contemporaneous with T’ang, I wonder if there is a connection?

the collapse corrosponds to letting jews into your society.

Similar population collapses that happen later are directly linked to pandemics like the plague. As the transition from hunter gatherers starts many people start to gather together in towns and cities and it’s obvious that outbreaks would occur rapidly wiping out large numbers of the inhabitants. It may be the case that it’s only when the citizens learn to control outbreaks through better hygiene and clean water etc that they are able to build stable communities.

Really happy someone’s here to explain these things in an understandable way. Thanks!

Another great video. Really glad you began uploading. Needed some new blood in the history veins

The map you have for the Eastern Roman Empire is inaccurate, North Africa wasn't lost until after the death of Heraclius

I like the “let’s dig in” tag way too much lol

For those of you with AAAS/Science access, see "Kilimanjaro Ice Core Records: Evidence of Holocene Climate Change in Tropical Africa". There is a 3(?) part documentary on Egypt's near collapse, but I can't recall the name. Also points directly to Kilimanjaro ice cores in a later video of the series.

I'm wondering if the spread of Indo-Europeans is what caused the shifts in complexity, sedimentary to more nomadic, and changes in material culture.

You don't have the voice for this. You're difficult to follow.

Please nix the AI. I appreciate the upfrontedness with it but there's absolutely no need to use it, and there are a thousand reasons not to. Ignoring ethical concerns vis-a-vis artist pay, environmental concerns, and more, ultimately, it makes it look like crap, glossy and fake. Please just hire an artist or use archeological footage. Really enjoy the channel, you write well and tell great stories of early history, but if there's a bunch more AI usage in future I might find it hard to come back.

RUclips suggested this video to me; I was glad to have another Bronze age podcast-like thing to listen to while I drive. However, I sometimes got lost. It seems to me the podcaster doesn't enunciate as clearly as he might. Truth be told I'm not a native English speaker. Understanding speech in English is always a little bit of a challenge to me. But this was harder to pick up than most other podcasts I listen to. I really, really loved the content, though! ❤