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WE NEED ETCH!!

Absolutely love this - two masters dishing out insight. Kevin has single handedly levele'd up my dev game and by extension life/income etc & Brian has showed me that I know literally nothing about Gutenberg or WP code standards lol. Cheers to both of you.

Interesting concept about "visual development" - I'm at the point where when I'm using something like Laravel, I wish I could drag some blocks into the blade files lol. I got so lazy I don't feel like thinking about tailwind classes or creating the component, especially for basic content. Once you learn blocks/site editor, it does cut down the DEV time.

Great conversation. Been following Kevin for a long time. Glad there is someone advocating for the professionals and doing the right things.

Great Episode

Appreciate this conversation. Shout out to Generate support forums. They go over and beyond helping people with their help and accompanying snippets when applicable.

From my experience the client always want's to "edit the website" but what us as devs need to distinguish either a) Clients are just asking to edit and publish content b) client actually wants to restructure layouts etc. If the client is requesting a website setup and hand off, Wordpress is the tool. If the client expects you to stay in contact with updates as a *Web Developer* they will expect the website to do all sorts of things (like a web app). With Wordpress you end up in two camps. Either a lot of fighting with custom php plugins, or end up in plugin hell scouring for ready made solutions that may also cost an arm and a leg.

I've tried a lot of page builders and CMS editors and I'll say Wordpress Gutenberg does strike a good balance with customization with guard rails. Wordpress feels like it is going towards the "jack of all trades master of none". If the client needs more than 5 pages and or will have thousands of different posts / products Wordpress is not the tool for the job. If there was more push for the headless end of Wordpress I could see it bridging that gap between simple blog and complex custom web app. I'm afraid of reaching for any plugins because I've been burned so many times with abandoned packages (or crazy expensive alternatives). So props to the core library for staying backwards compatible while steadily adding more features.

A lot of talk about starter themes. I would love to know why WP Rig or Sage are not valid options. What could I add to WP Rig to make it viable for devs like you guys?

34:08 This is exactly what I've been saying. Stripe became so dominant because they focused on the developer experience. Their approach was to make it easy for the developers so they would use it in their projects. A major part of the WordPress adoption for non-blog sites was led by agencies. Without a focus on agency and developer experience, we will look for frameworks with less friction. Which means we're not building future sites on WordPress.

This has been a great therapy session. haha One of the most powerful changes I've made is making smaller components that are synced patterns and then added to patterns. It's total pattern inception.

Great conversation! I can relate to so many things. We're all struggling with similar issues, like updating already-included patterns, starter themes, or the core navigation block… Thank Brian for doing these interviews! It’s immensely valuable to see different approaches and learn how everyone tries to tackle these obstacles.

Canonical plugins would be the best, Google could start with a decent, lightweight seo plugin.