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It's complex which in turn make it hard. I also make a point that for new players the mechanics are hard. But yeah, the opponents are also hard.

​@@devvmeleeThere's nothing complicated about Melee. Chess is much more complex than Melee because it's up to 32 pieces to mentally keep track of vs Melee's up to 8 chars (IC doubles ditto)

I'm talking about the mentality of someone that only wants to spam an option all the time. It's not just meant for grab, I use grab as an example.

​@@devvmeleeOkay. I guess Falcos should laser less then

@@philosopherkingzant2037 wdoos lol ez falco laser problem fixed

What's 4xm?

It's more that they spam the same option like grab, or lazer, or cc, or whatever it is. I was just illustrating my point through grab. Thanks for the comment.

I don't think it's a problem where slippi is frustrating therefore the scene is failing. That's not my argument. I'm saying we fail for other reasons. My major points of why we are failing aren't related to slippi. But I agree that I need to go to lans.

​@@devvmeleeokay then why is *half* this 35 min video dedicated to complaining about the unranked experience? Sounds like these should be two separate videos: 1) I don't like unranked and 2) the melee scene is failing In general I think both the lack of organization and lack of research done for this video is going to seriously hurt the couple of valid points you make. Like the first thing you said that I thought I was interesting was the proposed solution about a Smash World Tour style point system bridging online and IRL play, but then you just talk about how you don't know anything about this stuff. If you want to meaningfully contribute to the discourse, look into it and synthesize a perspective, otherwise this is all just vague waffling based on vibes. Similarly, you wonder aloud if there is something we can do to help incentivize people to show up at majors, but then it seems you didnt look into these solutions or talk to TOs about their current plan etc. moreover, it seems like youre not plugged in to your local scene at all so you both wouldn't know what they are doing to help the scene while simultaneously contributing to the problem yourself. PLUS you could have researched how different regions are performing at different levels. Some regions are alive and well right now and itd be interesting to see what they do differently than other regions Moreover, it seems youre implying that box controllers and wonky rankings are major contributions to declining viewership but that just doesn't seem to be the case - 1) because both of these issues have existed for years and 2) because people don't stop watching for these reasons. They usually stop when there are less hype events and less players they like to watch. I think they are both reasonable criticisms per se but both have almost nothing to do with the ostensible thesis that melee is failing Even the fact that melee has had declining viewership in the last 2 years doesn't mean melee is failing - it's popularity has oscillated many times over the years and, due to Nintendo, a bunch of our momentum got ripped out from under us almost exactly 2 years ago. Whether or not this a permanent decline is yet to be seen and you do nothing to make the case that it is. Even if I disagreed with your stance, you would at least be positing some sort of synthesized worldview that you think has utility. But this comes off almost entirely as a disorganized airing of grievances - where the stuff that annoys you personally gets a ton of screen time and the potential solutions aren't given any serious thought at all If you actually want to help the scene, try to help it. This "getting frustrations off your chest" style video framed as meaningful exploration of Melee's decline is just negativity without purpose

@@Extracredittttta lot of this video is just getting things off my chest, it’s for my own purpose. You’re definitely right that this could have been two videos. The first and second part only connect in that I think the scene is obsessed and too competitive. Don’t get me wrong, I think you bring up a lot of good points that I could have done research over. But I’m not here to make a documentary. I’m not a journalist, documentarian, and I’m not even a youtuber. This was just a video I made from my perspective of how I feel the scene is failing. You can see it as just waffling and negativity and I don’t completely disagree because that’s what I was doing. Thanks for the input though.

@@devvmelee I think I misinterpreted the purpose of this video and I appreciate the added context. While I may feel that such content doesn't have utility to the scene at large, I think expressing yourself as you feel now is 100% valid. I levied a ton of criticism at your work in this comment and you have received them graciously and for that you def have my respect. Thanks for reading my perspective.

@@Extracredittttt your comments were certainly warranted. I had some similar thoughts before making this. Ultimately I would like to know what more TO’s think as my biggest thing is wondering how we can have jungleguy have one of the biggest tournaments and never get paid. That didn’t sit right with me at all. But like I said, I don’t understand the inner workings, so I’m just complaining.lol. I appreciate your words and I’m glad you took what I had to say seriously enough to continue with this convo.

This video is a lot about getting my thoughts and frustrations out and I probably do sound like I'm whining. But I think it's more about a mentality than about people getting better.

when you only press z you lame bruh how is that even competitive lol you can press one button cool bruh

NOOOOOO. Anything but that. lol

yeah if you watch the rest he says some way better things but that part was crazy to me. As someone who has been playing for over a decade, people at Lans played the exact same way XD. of course there was some public shaming to go with it but fighting someone spamming shield grab is reality in melee

I'm not really interested on whether or not I retain viewership. This was just a lot of frustration I had felt that I needed to get off my chest. I could ad some chapters though. thanks for the comment.

I am also a falcon main and have mostly played falcon throughout the years. These clips are just background for the video. So I wouldn't take them for granted. But the spam idea is more about people just boring me. It's not that I can't play around it, it's that I get bored.

​@@devvmelee so basically you're upset that people play the game in a way you don't like? Isn't that completely subjective?

⁠@@ermineinaxrising8036that’s not really my main point. I’m talking more about the mentality of how the scene being too competitive causes people to take things too seriously. I know it’s a really long drug out point, so that’s my fault for sure. But your point isn’t invalid. I think the reality is that the game has become something that I’ve become too separated from. I might have been more competitive myself and now I just don’t care, so when I run into people that spam, or take things too seriously, then it’s probably boring because my wants have changed. I allude to this a little at the end of the video, but I probably should have said it better. Thanks for the critique.

@@devvmelee I mean I do think that a fair criticism of the community, but I think maybe you're just getting burnt out on the game. I'm pretty new to melee I've only been playing seriously for about a year, but for me the game has never been more exciting(eggdog was killer). I love getting better and playing the best melee I can play. so when I play unranked I try as if it were a tournament because that's what I find fun about the game. I dont like playing melee laid back thats just not fun for me. now I dont spam moves or run away either, but you get my point.

@@ermineinaxrising8036 i get what you’re saying. Eggdog was dope and I’m glad that we have a summit style event because it’s always been my favorite. What I fear is what happens when we can’t keep that around? We couldn’t keep summit alive, eggdog might not be any different. I am burnt out to a degree and I do think it comes down to different wants in my life. You’re not the kind of player I’m talking about. I had the same mentality as you and I don’t think that mentality is problematic, I actually think it’s great for the game. But others I’ve seen are too competitive and that’s where I take issue.

The play probably would for sure. I don't doubt that. Probably shot myself in the foot by saying that because now everyone seems to think that the rest of my video in invalid.

@@devvmelee I mean yeah i wonder why LOL you’re talking about a community you’ve never interfaced with in person and it’s really strange that you think you can assert it’s failing when in person event numbers are the best they’ve been in 6 years? Seems absolutely about your personal online experience and struggles improving at the game rather than anything to actually do with the greater scene

@@EpicuriousGeorgeI’ve interfaced with the community plenty, just not at lan events. You can say that maybe I should have done more research, or even interviewed people, but ultimately this is just a perspective I have because of how we can’t keep orgs, tournaments, and players around. This is to say that my personal experience with online is more about talking mentality, not just talking about how I dislike it because of the people. I probably could have made that point in a different way. Thanks for the critique.

its a shame, dude. I love her movement, but she literally has NO MOVES to toss out in neutral. Its her biggest bane =( She has to play very smoke and mirrors. Its why I never blame samus players for not approaching cuz they literally can't lolol

I only get that sometimes. I feel like I have to go searching for that person, but with the ego players, I get them what seems to be like every other match.

That's something I hadn't thought about. This video was more about getting out frustration. I'll take your advice though. Thanks.

It's something spammy for sure. Makes me sad to see as a dual main falco/falcon.

@@devvmelee Im a puff main, but I dabble into Falco and Fox, and I can say that it’s wild that people can play 2 of 3 that can approach in their sleep and they don’t do it

I was just about to say this. There is basically no communication online, there is no "that was really nice!" "Wow, you are way better than me" or "Hey, is there anything I can actually do about this situation?" It is reduced to gameplay - which in Melee is inherently high pressure. Without the personal aspect, poor-mannered players get to be toxic and well-mannered players almost always have to assume the worst of their opponent. As a result, practice on Slippi is often not that great, because you don't want to lose to a jerk - so you aren't going to be focused on improving.

Yeah, that's what I'd assume.

I know how to play around it. I was saying that I get bored.

@@devvmelee Then get custom on the scrubs. Make them lose in their own game.

dubs is ded cuz tryhards would team up to beat on random partners and stroke their egos as they have fake synergy advantage.

I think partly why so many of us like the idea of being competitive in video games is because it's so easily accessible. Like, I've known people go from casual to at least semi pro player in a couple of games. So it's feasible. But over all, I don't think it's manageable. Realistic if you can manage it, but most of us have lives and the ones that don't need to have more of a life. Gotta have balance. I guess no matter where you are the salt will follow. But being salty with friends is still probably better than being salty in your room alone. Thanks for the comment.

Sports are games lol

Bro sports are literally children's games

I don’t even know what that is 😎😎😎

@@DiamondEye24 dw about it, all u need to know is it was KEWL and peach got rocked.

Thanks. I'd like to make more videos like this because books like these are good for your mental game/life. Hard to come up with ideas though.

I would say the teleports are only defensive because theres no active hitbox.

@@007Devin Disagree. You can use pure movement to get on your opponent's blindside and get your opening. Its also how I reclaim stage position and hop on the offensive from a corner. You don't need a hitbox out to be an offensive threat. Look at tomahawks.

Yes I do. I switch every once in a while.

Good luck with melee. It's changed my life for good and bad. lol

Thank you. I appreciate it.