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Oh man. I was just behind. I have Tigana sitting on my bookshelf and I was looking for a good reason to jump into it. I really want to get into Guy Gavriel Kay.

Here are a few clarifications from what I understood. Lorn was beaten and heavily injured by the Crimson Guard swordsman Blues (remember the name for the Esslemont series), and that's why those 2 barmaids killed her so easily. An Azath doesn't necessarily spawn from an acorn (Finnest). It usually spawns to capture beings of unchecked power that may tip the scalea of balance. Its kind of nature's immune system. The Finnest had Raest's power stored in it, and Raest was never able to reclaim it, otherwise he would have been unstoppable. When Raest came near it via Mammot, the Finnest started growing in power, and thats why the Azath spawned to capture it. Inside the Azath, the Finnest took on a crude form of Raest, and the Azath was fighting it and loosing, as it was young. Thats why Tool and Paran fought the Finnest Raest, to give the Azath time to capture it. Raest inside Mammot’s body was weakened by Quick Ben's 6 warrens and then blown up by Hedge's cusser. The Paran Tattersail romance thing does feel forced here, but there is a conversation in Memories of Ice, which will make it cleaner and make sense. I forgot what other questions you all weren't sure about, but you can ask if you want. For some reason I am not able to comment in the page chewing forum. I am logged in, can see all the posts, but not getting any option to comment.

Do you envision every time Rake enters a scene it goes to slo mo and a wind of indeterminate origin comes up and tousels his air? Perhaps with a Jon Williams theme as well. Deadhouse rereads a lot different. Since you k ow how ut ends you pick up on a lot of details.

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Finally. Waiting for this from a long time. Will listen today. 😊

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I thought the duel is a reference to T. H. White's The Once and Future King, but (quoted in the invaluable Annotated Pratchett File) Pratchett says it's based on the folk song The Two Magicians.

When I read it eventually, I'll get back to these 🤜🤛

Loving your discussions. Sorry is possessed by the Rope, and we don't know how much agency she has. But it will be made clear later. Oponn took an interest in Paran because he named his sword Chance, and when Sorry killed him, they found a way to meddle in the affairs by saving him. Whatever meddling they do, they do it together. Only the Lord's push is called bad luck and the Lady's pull is called Good luck. But its usually random who will work. Who is supposed to die in place of Paran is a longer mystery and can be deduced some books later. Paran and Tattersail's attraction and hook up is natural, but the romance is not. Even I didn't like that, but there is a conversation later in Memories of Ice which addresses this issue pretty satisfactorily. During Tattersail's death, Tool's warren, Telann was open. And as per the lore in this book, under the influence of Telann warren, other warrens either don't work or react explosively. However this is retconned in later books and never mentioned again in the series. One of the few inconsistencies that are present in GOTM, as Erikson forgot some things later as it was written 10 years ago. The warrens are not ruled by Gods. They are worlds/dimensions that anyone with a particular affinity can access and use. Some gods just are attuned to some warrens and hold a position in the Deck of Dragons for that warren, but that doesn't mean they rule the warrens. There are gods who are not associated with any warren, like Oponn. And there are warrens which are not associated with any God. Priests are worshippers of gods. They may or may not have magical powers.

It is kind of a running joke comparing Rake with Elric. Erickson has stated that he hadn't read it at the time of writing. However, nobody asked Esselmont, his DM, definitely had, has said he is an 'homage'. Gardens is often placed near if not at the bottom of ranking the series. AP is an exception as he places it first. The farther you get in the seties, especially on a reread, you realize how much was set up and foreshadowded the rest of the series. Regarding Karkanas, you really have to be a Malazan fan who loves the lore to get into it. There is a lot of backstory on a lot of things, and yet with only two books out is.still quite vague. Really looking forward to Walk in Shadow.

Dan mentioned King Diamond! Yes!!!

Credit where credit is due, this was a hell of a discussion.

I am running behind on the videos, just finished this. Enjoying your discussions. Tayschrenn did unleash a demon and that was the demon that killed Nightchill. We see from Tattersail's perspective in Ch 2, that a demon spawned near Nightchill and killed her. We just didn't know that it was Tayschrenn who summoned that.

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I keep wrestling with me supporting guys like cnauir and what he represents in a world such as this where everything in a way is amoral. Reminds me in a way of gnostism where it’s not so much a belief in good and evil but in reaching enlightenment. As a religious person reading these ideas also talking to my Hindu and various background freinds is always really interesting when seeing similar philosophies or differences. For example the diatribe kelhus goes into sounds a lot like what the Eastern Orthodox believe in? Always interesting discussions I am obviously late lol but thx for these they help me get through work

Just got finished with this section. The use of lighting in so many of the scenes is always so amazing, for example Sompas stepping into the dark and us having his thoughts and actions come through as not his known tying into the darkness that comes before. Xinemus has had such powerful and haunting scenes especially when he is seeing the darkness, which echoes ideas around the no god. Also the way khelus recreates dagliash at gerotha

Oh you guys are still on traitor's Knot! I was worried youd catch me up!!! Just about to start initiate's trial whilst heading to Vietnam 😊

Oh how exciting! I got 3/4 through Deadhouse Gates and need to finish at some point! I just got distracted lol

I really liked the question you asked about D&D and Ascendents. I remember a little while back I was watching a video where some dude walk talking about the old D&D and how basically you would reach a point where you were basically a god. I remember thinking at the time that suddenly Ascendents and gods in Malazan suddenly making sense to me. Ascendents are basically characters who have leveled up that high, and some of them go on to become gods, some of them remain just insanely powerful beings.

Dasseml Ultor was the first sword of Hood. The knight of a Death i think is anothet character in another book.

I thought the Mason was Whiskeyjack. Wasn't it the next chapter where he taliked about his he was almost a mason before joining the Malazan Marines.

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Some mild spoilers lay below unless you've read at least up through book 3. Ok, managed to read all three chapters this evening. The stand out of these three is, of course, Chapter 3. The end of the Siege of Pale. Coming from a reread perspective it was neat to look at the entire fight with Anomander Rake. How culpable was Tayschrenn in the deaths of everyone. It reads a lot differently knowing what was really going on here with Nightchill. But even bigger than that...meeting the Bridge Burners for the first time all over again. Oh it was so good to see them again. I was shocked as we get further on in this series how little they actually play for most of it. Going back to this idea of each book very much being its own book. Some continue some ideas, some plot points, but so often we get whole new characters every other book it seems like.

So excited to see this readalong. I might have to try and read a long with you all. I read through the main series a couple years ago. And I just finished Esselmont's Novels of the Malazan Empire a few months ago (My hottest of hot takes is that I prefer some of Esselmont's writing to Ericksons). I was planning on starting the Paths to Ascendancy next year.

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This was such a great discussion!! Thank you Varsha for inviting me, and looking forward to the next chat!

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Varsha I'm thankful for six smart, fun friends talking my ear off.

Varsha, thanks for analyzing some threads of Janny Wurts' beautiful tapestry. Arithon is an intriguing, intra- and inter-woven character whose still resilience is partly self-preservation protecting his powerful empathy.

Re the head on the pole, the theory that felt most correct was that it was Kellhus’ link back to the material world so he could come back from the outside - if he had to swap heads to go to the outside maybe his own head was on a pole waiting for him to switch back after he returns 😂

'Found the Scalded difficult to swallow.' Nothing? 😅 Like Dan, I didn't realize how long the appendix was so the ending was rather abrupt. Apparently I missed a lot with the ending with the decapitants and more. Might break a lot of rules and just reread this when Philip and Johanna get to it. For a quote, this book has the best final line. Mixed feelings on a possible sequel. Ending was perfect but would not complain. Regarding reading the ICE books, really enjoyed Paths. Lots of Easter eggs and origin stories for MBotF. Like there really was a bridge that burned.

Congrats on finishing the series, now is where the fun starts, re-reads are extremely enjoyable, and i would urge you to at least read the prologue of darkness, you will see so many tiny nuggets that are directly linked to the ending. The golden room sequence is one of the best finales i have read in fiction. SO much gets recontextualized, Dunyain are the true bad guys, Inchoroi know nothing and are being manipulated by the Dunyain, the entire inverse fire sequence. The Chorae are not made by the inchoroi, there was an ancient school of magic all about negation, and one of its members ended up learning how to open the ark and start the consult, i belive one of the atrocity tales are about him. Kellhus definetely has contingencies, i fully believe this was a part of the plan, my theory is that kellhus will try to starve the gods in order to achieve the absolute in the outside, and due to that, he needs them to be weakened or killed, it also adds another layer as to why he dammed the entire ordeal, if belief = power in the outside, combined with his powerful soul, he surely will descend upon the outside as a hunger that shall consume all, similar to how the no god is acting on the material world. Head on a pole could be an entire podcast worth of discussion. The first scene of The Judging Eye is Kelmomas torturing the bug under a statue of Ajokli and he says "they cannot see", the foreshadowing was always there. The No God was "fixed" by the consult(mostly non-men and humans). Another cool god "easter egg" would be Cnaiur in the first trilogy killing so many people that people saw horns sprouting from his head.

O wow, almost 3 hours, this is going to be good.

A History of Earwa helped me so much, I highly recommend reading this after!

Had the same idea as Dan - that it was the Scalded that helped change then back. And if you go way back, Sorwheel did warn them about eating sranc and also how to cure it, although he never said what that was. And yes, lots to talk about next week.

Thanks for this. I’m currently rereading Dicks works but will read more widely in the masterworks series and tune into these discussions when I finish each book

Did he not write from his own perspective as a stimulant user who experienced problems with psychosis? Some of his descriptions of the schizophrenia were pretty accurate in terms of effects on the schizophrenic experiencer. Some of the stuff surrounding Jack, and in the part where arnie goes back in time I could identify with as someone with a diagnosis.

As someone with a psychiatric diagnosis I found this book and clans of the alphane moon pretty fascinating even if the psychology was a little off. A good insight into the time it was written too. I liked it a lot and respect the imagination that could even come up with this.

Thank you so much for hosting these Varsha, it was a great discussion! Looking forward to the next one 👀

I first read this series in the early 70’s. The first book is kind of the odd man out and can be a little dry, but all of the last three books are great IMO. Yes, some of the science is not the greatest, but they’re pretty old novels, so just go along for the ride and enjoy it for what it is. I just started reading it again recently for the first time in over 40 years. It’s still one of my all-time favorite series. It’s still a terrific story and I’d recommend it to all real SF fans. BTW, I live by a rainy mountain (Haleakala). On its slope actually. -Aloha from Maui ! 😊🤙

I enjoy so much your discussions about these books. Two small notes. I have often thought what you said about what might be the meaning in the bestial decline of the Ordealmen. I think one of the many points Bakker wants to light is the passion of people for consuming... About Zsoronga and Sorweel Actually Sorweel is older. According to appendixes Sorweel in Golgotterath is 17 and Zsoronga is 16. Zsoronga is just much more physical, stoic and intimidating. They are young scions and heirs

"I want to see inside" hahaha, you will witness many things in these last chapters. Damn, Varsha's theories are piping hot, love what she is cooking up, extremely perceptive for a first time reader.

I think Steve and Dan have been waiting months to get to these chapters. I believe it was the only time I had to put a book down and walk away for a few minutes. Bakker went full anime. For why, I have two related thoughts. First, Kellhus has been all about the ends justify the means. Bakker has been slowly upping the ante for the cost of the means. Second, I believe Kellhus offered forgiveness of all sins on the Great Ordeal much like plenery indulgences and snowed what people are capable of without any fear of consequences. I love the imagery of Golgotterath, which I interpret at Golgotha the hill of the skull where Christ was crucified. The horns also remind be a lot of the beasts in the Apocalypse of John / Revelations.

Yes, the end begins The Eating of the Scalded is one of the darkest parts of the series The entire "we are the dammned that are holy" speach from proias is haunting, it also gives more context as to why Kellhus spent so much time degrading Proias, it was all for this moment, these decisions, how much will you blacken your soul in order to eliminate "true evil"? "things better happen quickly" oo boy, this book will be fun I believe Kellhus at this point is truly being honest, he does love esmenet and she is his "darkness" but he is still a dunyain, so her survival must have some greater meaning. Snorting Quirri is next level Acha refering to the twins as my child is definetely not a mistake, think about one of the first things we learn about The Judging Eye