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They have a website where you can see pictures of the members, the only thing I found about age is that a woman celebrated her 75th birthday and moved away but i'm not sure if it was forced or not.

No, they value human rights. That only happens under capitalism

Edward O. Wilson had it right in that people are not blank slates and that biology and evolution have to be accounted for. However, I would no more follow EOW completely than I would Skinner.

davetileguy EXACTLY

why

Organic food, different responsibilities from most modern life, potentially slower life vs city life, sense of community including friend and family that the people you’re referring to don’t have. Vegetarian options”probably mandatory, unsure based on their tofu manufacturing.” But yea, you’re probably somewhat right, though these types of places always come off as cult like. They mentioned shared income which indicates to me that the community would have access to our tax and income information. Scary stuff man. Too much potential for abuse and misappropriation of members assets. Of course, I say all this based on what I’ve seen of Scientology and without have ever been there to see it.

Super Super what do you mean?

Super Super And whose fault is it that some people have low paychecks? It’s theirs. Because they won’t get a new job OR they can’t because they did something stupid in the past. If it’s because they have a mental disorder, there’s medicine that they’re refusing to take or put any effort into getting. Not to mention that every communist society falls apart eventually. Go to North Korea or travel back in time to the USSR if you want this lifestyle.

A small group of ~100 Hippy Communists works out a hell of a lot better than a group of say, ~10,000,000 Communists. Having differing communities *within* a community provides something that no other place can offer. The chance to get away from it all without changing an entire Countries way of operation. Don't like your Desk Job that you'll be stuck at for another 40 years? Bills and Debt up to your neck? Tired of the mindset of the average individual being set simply on greed and malice? Move away. Work the land. Cultivate only what you need, and leave the rest for others. Because contrary to your belief - Jobs don't exist everywhere, for everyone. Let's say you grew up in a rural farm town. Where only Factories, Fast Food, and Franchises exist within your reach. What Job skills will you have by say, 30? Will you be able to make the leap into an Executive Advertising Company? Maybe a new Tech Startup in Silicon Valley? Probably not. Will you be able to move to that Big City across the way and be a big shot millionaire by the time you come back? Probably not. The American Dream is just that, a Dream. Perhaps if you were blessed in Childhood with being raised in a large, ever expanding City, had a wealthy upbringing, and a good Public/Private education, you *might* be able to look at "the world as your oyster". But many won't be able to. It's easy to say "Just get a new/better job", "just move to a better city", etc., etc., than it is to actually do it and succeed. It's funny to me that the people who tend to say these things are stuck in deadend jobs themselves, they usually just don't know it yet.

Tyler Bishop Uh... I don’t have a job at all. I’m a minor. While a hundred hippie communists is better, it’s still not good. It’s eventually going to collapse

Sure as long as you don’t force your ideology in anyone else or on the community

It is quite ironic that as humans, the most intelligent species to ever exist, we have created a toxic, consumerist society that goes against our bests interests and that we struggle with adapting to, when it should be the other way around. We should be creating societies fit for us. Our needs and desires.

jackal wolf It’s pronounced “Hay-Zeus”. He’s their shingle guy. Always gets the job done and cheaply.

Well, they collectively own their means of production. The people who buy their products may be capitalists, or at least earn their pay within capitalism - which is all but unavoidable given the current reality of our world - but Twin Oaks residents certainly aren't capitalists.

Yes, we do in fact still live in a global capitalist system that none of us could hope to change

@@doug604 how avout the people they boot off?what do they own?

@@doug604 those ppl that never get booted off are certainly capitalists,you know the ones that own all the nice cars :))))))

Miko sunstrider they accept international members

Then immigrate to the United States

Don't worry, it's being forced on the world now. You will own nothing and be happy!! Total BS!

@@angry1631 lol the opposite is happening, the world is becoming a complete turbo-capitalism fiasco. Even China is just a turbo-capitalist state it completely left communism behind and buried it.

@@angry1631 Tbf, the "Great Reset" bs agenda is different. That community is voluntary (they don't accept everyone/have a testing period) whereas the great reset is something they are trying to impose on everyone. By force Consent changes everything. Oak Ridge can exist alongside (and well, inside) a capitalist/freemarket system, so there's no issue with it

Mee Gar It’s communist...

Let's create our own

@@maesaliva what's wrong with cummune-ism? You don't like communes...

Esoteric Truth ת It always ends up falling apart. Take the Soviet Union or North Korea as an example.

@@maesaliva why does everyone pretend china and korea and russia have anything to do with commune-ism...Name a single self sustainable commune out there.

I can tell by the language you use and your familiarity with the catch phrases Oakers use that you are very familiar with the place. Almost all of what you say is spot on, but could still use a bit a elaboration on several points. I'll just mention one: the questions you are asked in your interview. 　 ["What kind of diet do you follow?" "Are you planning on having any children?" "Have you ever attempted suicide?" They also ask about your love life with questions about your sexual preferences and your past relationships.] 　 To be fair, diet is pretty important for everyone. TO provides a certain kind of diet, but if your diet differs from that, you're going to have problems and are not going to be happy. For sure, it's none of their business what you eat, but they ask that question for a reason. 　 As far as having children, there have been HUGE issues in the past about the children's program that have been VERY divisive and intractable. You have to know when you become a member that you will not be able to have kids when you want to have them. The Tennessee Farm tried to do that and was soon overrun with children. At TO you just can't do that. It would destroy the community. 　 Suicides. TO attracts people who don't necessarily get on well in mainstream society. That's probably the reason they are attracted to the place to begin with. Sometimes, the reason they don't do well on the outside is because of mental issues that then carry over into their life in community. At TO (and also at Eastwind), there have been several suicides, and also a few members who have left eventually committed suicide. This is very draining on the community (as you can imagine). They want to avoid admitting people with mental health issues if they can. So they ask this question in the interview. 　 The question about love life and sexual preferences. I'm not sure why they ask that. I could guess, but I'll just leave it alone. 　 I should also mention that when you go in to Charlottesville to a doctor, you don't necessarily have to pay the $30. There are scheduled town trips to C'ville that are free. If you have an emergency ... I don't remember whether you have to pay or not. I really doubt if they make you pay. I think that trip would be billed to 'medical'. 　 But, yeah, everything else you mention I can verify. I think, however, that most people coming to this site already have a favorable view of TO and other 'intentional' communities (as if the nearby town of Louisa, VA is NOT intentional), and they don't really want to hear this. So we're sort of wasting our time. They want to think community is a big leap forward and is the future of the planet: a response to what they see as living isolated, lonely lives in the city. And, in fact, some people do well at TO. Most eventually leave though, as you mention.

Sad but not surprising. These type of places are no paradise. They show you what they want you to see. People are so gullible and stupid, if they think this is in any way desirable. Communism doesn't work. Look at history and all the devastation it has caused. Giving up your income? Ideally signing over your assets? Certain property/items being banned? No car, television, ask some 'leader' if you can help out your own family monetarily with what was YOUR money? Fuck that shit. No different than what Jonestown started off as, i.e. a cult.

Twin Oaks @VM 80 This place isn't even really communist. They only say they value equality, diversity, inclusion, and tolerance. The reality is that they discriminate and exclude people who they don’t think fit the mold of a desirable Oaker, which is intolerant. That’s why they do so much probing during their membership interviews because they're trying to weed people out who they think might cause them pain in the future if they turn out to be nutcases when they're not even qualified to be making such judgments about potential members. (Don’t just take it from me; Pat Downs indicated the same thing in what she wrote above.) For them to be passing judgment on who they think is sane is ridiculous. They're violating EEO laws when they ask questions about mental health history, the history of your love life/past relationships, and your sexual preferences. If they had HR staff who were more professional, then they would know that such questions are grounds for a lawsuit and they wouldn't discriminate like this. You really notice that there’s something wrong with the way these people do business when you see that they would try to call themselves communist and then not even provide you with health insurance for six months. Where’s the economic equality in that? It’s a huge contradiction. And making you wait two years for dental insurance is far from communistic. VM80, you and I have already covered other ways that they stick their hand in your pocket. The sad reality is that all of that hippie crap from the 60's about love turned out to be a farce. These Oakers treat you the same way that job applicants to corporations get treated when they're looking for jobs. The new guy/gal gets screwed. It's just more business as usual.

Maybe the goal is to encourage other people to start their own community, and in the case of this conference, collaborate with other communities elsewhere?

Are you referring to policies at East Wind? Most FEC communities have policies around gender balance, in an attempt to be more egalitarian. There are certainly discriminatory ways those and other policies might be enforced sometimes, but they exist for important reasons. All the FEC communities have membership processes that can be followed in order to join. The special thing about those processes is that, in principle at least, no amount of money is required in order to become a member, only hard work and a willingness to engage in the culture. Out of all the communities, Twin Oaks is probably the most accessible one to visit.

Commune Life if those discriminatory policies were actually fair to everyone i suspect there would be far more successful communes in terms of members than there are. The fact is most will not take a man without adding a woman as well which I understand but that doesn't mean it's right.

@@all4him327 None of the communities in the FEC have a one man one woman policy. There's more nuance than that, and also more openness to queer non binary identities. What communities are you referring to by the word 'most'?

Point A there is only subtlety in their written requirements and yes I guess they are getting more open to queer membership because they are very poor at attracting females of any orientation. I am a single hetro male 58 yrs old and have contacted numerous communities only to be virtually talked out of even seeking any more contact much less a spot in the community and they all bring up gender ratio. I'm not blaming or shaming anybody here just sharing because they make it sound easy to become a part of it when it's really not. I hate the materialist trap of this country but perhaps I've waited too long because age may well be a factor as well.

So commune-ism is just communes?

this is light communism no? its a choice, not enforced...

@@wutm8565 communism isn’t forced

@@guardiandogoargentinos1385 no Communism is a stateless, moneyless and classless society In order to make things happen you need to voluntary organisation, communes and coops are a good way of organizing So this is more of an application of communism in a statist capitalist society

@@wutm8565 Communism is not forced.... It's designed to be extremely open. Unfortunately the word has been highjacked by populist dictators running totalitarian societies.

We are!

Me too!

you nailed it.

That's the case with most companies you work for, and I'd rather work here knowing I get room and board whereas in mainstream capitalist society my wage won't even be enough to afford living in an apartment as is the case for millions of working class people in this country.

Nuclear.......sorry, but you lack any drive or ambition.

dabprod really . slave labour ? smoke a joint bro / sister . stop with the fucking painful bullshit .you think working in the real world is better than this . then you either dont work or your on another fucking planet .

Why nothing long term? Its possible to live permanent and die there, and your kids do the same. I dont know if they do this in Twin Oaks, but its possible for such communities. Also why does it have to be One Owner?..The land can be owned by everybody who lives there. Again..i dont know if this is the case for Twin Oaks, but it can be for any such community. Everything is a matter of perspective.

With Education i guess

I'd like to know more about that. In some intentional communities I've visited I see that they ostracize people who don't fit in so that they feel unwelcome and eventually leave.

The People who form Intentional communities, are people taken from our current system, so, they carry with them all the baggage that the current system produces. Some more....some less. Its not so easy, like we press a button and suddenly we live in an utopia. People have to try for to make it work. They need to think in terms or "We", rather than "Me". Education is the Key to everything. You cannot force someone to live a healthy life... you should explain to him (Educate him) why healthy living is Best for all. If hes Adult, its harder to do so... and many times i guess, he wont change his ways. The worldview and goal should be shared by everyone, for what exactly is the purpose for this communities. Also there have to be specific rules that is respected by everyone that wants to join, so the whole thing can work. Personally if i was living in such a community, i would not mind if someone smoked as long as he was not doing it in closed spaces where non-smokers would be too.

Good point about people joining intentional communities realizing that the community actually has an intention that they want to focus on. On the other hand, being able to opt out is fine with small groups but trying to do that on a national scale is a horse of a whole-nother color.

Yes... its another color... but not unattainable given the right conditions.

Pat Downs you’re kind of missing the point, it’s not for everyone and they don’t let just anyone in. They have internships and a membership process. You could be a cook, carpenter or find a similar group along the coast. No one forces you to join these communities.

If you wanted to do those things then you wouldn’t fucking live there you lunatic.

For a lot of folks this is just what they want. And the capitalist answer to those questions is... "make enough money & we'll talk"

If I were 18, I'd get my ass to a place such as TO before I'd let myself be abused by the mainstream workplaces and housing situation. Although, I'd never think Behaviorism holds water, but from what I hear, neither do many at TO nowadays. Evolutionary biology has buried Behaviorism.

There are a lot of communities in NYC. Ganas is one of the oldest and largest, but there are a number of co-op houses in Brooklyn and other boroughs, and we (Cotyledon) have a new, income-sharing community in Queens. If you are interested in knowing more about us or communities in NYC in general, you can write us at Cotyledonqueens@gmail.com

As an introvert I did not find community was for me, and I'd be surprised if any true introvert can be happy in community.