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@@KaoticBPR Prior to arrival, I wasn’t sure how much use it’d get, if I’d tire of it like I did with my arcade cabinet. To my surprise it’s the only way I play pinball now, and I play on it a lot!

@@carlo1132 I agree. If they could just get these into a retail space for people to try for themselves I think the tune would change. I don’t know how many different ways I can say it, but I play the AG versions instead of OTG, simple as that.

@@bonesjackson81 Fair enough

@@Jambon_Emmental Healthy skepticism in regards to tech products my way of life!

@blahcadepinball Yep, very wise. And a position that has been totally validated by all this i guess.

@@rjclarkeePincadeRebel I think the more important thing about his tests was that they were done in a very consistent manner with instructions for how you could do it for yourself. I saw so many vids of people showing lag in very non scientific ways and results varied accordingly. There was significant improvements made though that I could feel for myself. The numbers just prove that, even though they are ultimately meaningless to my understanding of such things

Well, the other thing is, they do sell the Magic Pixel (Zaccaria, etc.) and Gottlieb tables in 4K, per Wagner's website. Gottlieb's a different story with their visuals, though, since Farsight doesn't even do updates with their products anymore. Not exactly misleading above, but here, the way AtGames advertised Zen's products at first, that's directly on AtGames. No question about it.

I appreciate your measured response. Ours is a take that certainly can be devisive. At the end of the day, it genuinely has a 4K monitor on it, the Rock Chip advertises as being able to output 4K, and in the case of what Wagner is reporting with resolutions, it does play all the Magic Pixel titles in 4K. I know, semantics, or as you put it, wordsmithing, but factual all the same. As for our take on 'buyer beware'. I'm sorry to rub you the wrong way. I myself as a consumer make very measured purchases, I research the hell out of things that cost much less than the ALP 4K. By the time I lay money down, I want to feel good about my decision. It's why I ultimately did not purchase the Arcade 1Up cab. I didn't like what I saw out of the ALP HD, but most of my concerns were addressed with the 4K. I've been on the fence regarding the purchase of a VR headset since the Quest 2 (a friend gave me his original Oculus Rift and that set the bar for what I needed fixed before making any VR purchases) and while I am encouraged by the Quest 3, I need to hear Zen's full plans for content delivery before I decide on that purchase. It is my mistake to assume so cavalierly that the general public behaves similarly. I'd always thought our show did a good job of educating as much as we could, perhaps we need to double down our efforts in the future. Thanks for watching and no hard feelings ever about agreeing to disagree!

​@@blahcadepinballdon't feel bad, I feel like I may have come across as a bit harsh--sorry about that, I was a little on the hangry side of things when I wrote that lol. I don't disagree with what I wrote, but it could have been done in a more diplomatic way by myself. And yeah, even though I shouldn't "have to," I do lots of research on the products I buy so as (hopefully) not to be duped, for sure. There's hype masters all over the place and it takes ones own research, common sense, and cross-checking with others experiences to make some semblance of an educated guess when buying (or avoiding) new gear. I appreciate you guys and even though we may have disagreed on this one, the pinball space is much better with you in it. It takes effort to put out content and I appreciate your efforts.

They've done similar with Paranormal, but I'm really wanting to know how they'll handle it for the ALP 4K version that eventually comes out, or if they'll do something special for cab owners and having the playfield displayed on the backglass or not. I'm truly hoping they do.

Thanks for visiting, we're always happy to welcome viewers from other channels.

Or even Blair witch would be cool

Death note

Licensing costs though and not just cost with some properties it's different licensing for music, characters, actors, etc it can be a minefiled. For instance, they obviously couldn't get the Friday 13th one hence why they did their own camp killer table recently.

Ermm, I don't want that guilt!!

Bugs Bunny Birthday Ball exists. We really don't want that one.

@@pinballwiz45b I've never really played it but I've heard it's horriawful. But I meant Porky's as in the 1980s teen sex comedy. It's bad enough there's an Atari game based on it. If they insist on doing a non-horror R rated pin, I wouldn't mind a gritty, bloody war epic. Saving Private Ryan Pinball. Maybe one day they'll get the HBO license and, in addition to Game of Thrones, they can do Band of Brothers. Bring back the guy who did Battle of Mimban, aka the greatest Zen original of all-time.

But you can do it with the UEVR injector, no ?

Yes, on some tables that is working ok, but on others you get strange camera movements. I don’t understand why VR has to be a separate game. Look at sim racing games that support VR and desktop in one game or looking at pinball, Zaccaria Pinball, where when buying a cheap DLC for that game, all tables you already purchased or will purchase in the future, can be played in VR in the same game. That way you only need to pay once.

Would love to see it too, but I think the licensing cost would be scary high.

Glad you think so!

​@blahcadepinball here are some great ideas I hope you consider and pass along for potential future tables. Horror: saw, Blair witch, halloween, stranger things, simpsons tree house of horror, scream,I am legend,death note. Non horror: DC show Arrow, deadpool, wolverine, assassin's creed

@@avaforlife4141 We already have separate Deadpool and Wolverine tables!

It’s a matter of timing and fit. I personally think Magic Pixel is better suited to the license than Zen. And if you’ve heard us tell the history, Zen could have had Williams 2 years earlier but they had Marvel or Star Wars content as well as other licenses they contractually had to finish and would not have been able to do any WMS titles, so they passed. Worked out in the end though.

@@blahcadepinball Magic Pixel may be fine if you own a At Games Cab or play on PC but as a console gamer and after the way they handled Zaccaria they are a big no no from me. When FX launched and Mel said it would be a pinball hub for ten years I was hoping they would finish the Williams and then go after Gottlieb/Stern etc. Tbh I was with Valve and couldn't believe they were launching a new app with M so soon into FX,s life.

@@blahcadepinball Magic Pixel is fine if you have a ALP cab or PC but as a console player they are a big no no from me due to how they handles Zaccaria on console.

@@princedizzy3506 PC player here, we haven't seen many updates on the Zaccaria front, either.

@@pinballwiz45b PC has many more tables, updates and bug fixes than console, they also didn't even bother to release the game on console in Europe.

I just want another movie! But a table built around the arena game, that’d be cool.

Believe me when I say we’re lucky to even get that much out of him as it being a possibility. We know him well enough that he was not gonna say more, so we keep it from being awkward. Unlike that other moment where the 2 of us literally didn’t know what to say after.

Well NBA Fastbreak and Rollergames are forever on my holy grail list, so his tease about NBA Fastbreak killed me as he was saying it fell apart. We hear the “I would be willing to spend $$$” comments all the time. Indy at $15 was a huge risk for them in terms of whether the larger audience would go for it. They know they can’t dip into the well but on very rare occasions without ticking off the community. If Stern wants to reenter the digi pin market, they’ve got Zen’s contact info.

@@blahcadepinball In the 90s you got ONE table for 50€. Sometimes 2, 3 or 4...so 5€ per table is really not expensive...nor the 15€.

Yeah, that was quite a shocking revelation.

Is Sony still supporting PSVR2? I had heard they’d all but given up on it.

@blahcadepinball there are a lot of games releasing every month, not 1st party that's right but a lot of games are doing great like Into the radius, Metro Awakening, Max mustard etc... Even more, Devs are staying that even with a lot less HDM sold compared to Quest, they are selling better on Psvr2 on a much better ratio game-HDM.

That would be wonderful, no doubt

Our pleasure

You do forget about the licensors. Past discussions have revealed that they are the ones who ask for room environment add-ons, they are the ones wanting another bite of the apple. Think about what Mel said when I asked just about including backglass images. Some licensors immediately wanted to know if it would be monetized. Now I'm not saying Zen isn't going to make it happen directly in PinFX, because I want that too, but before you make that a deal breaker you're going to have to accept the realities of what you ask.

"We'll be on Quest 3 first." VR is a large scale project, given what Mel said back in May. This alone raises several key points of speculation: 1) Unreal 5. EDIT: CHECK. 2) Upgrading Pinball FX and M to Unreal 5. Currently, they're on 4.27. 3) The use of VR integration in Steam's Pinball FX. Point #2 will especially be critical, since there are people out there worried that Zen will end up releasing sequels of the current FX and M. If my recent search attempt only pulled results for Unreal 5 and Quest 3 together (NOT Unreal 4), that's telling enough Zen will end up doing the upgrade on as many fronts as possible.

Those are alot of top notch suggestions. Might I add Voltron, Robotech, and Flinstones to the mix?

@@blahcadepinball Absolutely, my suggestions and yours are in my childhood/teen years.

Zen is trying to find machines in Europe. At one point Mel had located 3 owners of Cactus Canyon in Europe, but no one was willing to let Zen bring them to Budapest and essentially do a tear down. These machines are very rare here in the US too. FarSight bought their own when they did the table, and it was the single most expensive machine they ever bought (and consider they bought TAF, TZ, and Medieval Madness too)

AtGames said 52 titles are coming to ALP 4K in 2025. There's a solid chance some of those might be Star Wars or Marvel. The only reason I leave those off my speculation list is because it makes for a cleaner conversation!

@blahcadepinball hopefully licenses don't hold them back. I was really hoping for the whole catalog of marvel and starwars to head to the 4kp

@@vilhelmstein2091 that is the intention of Zen

The callouts from Bruce Campbell's Ash would be stellar

Which in a lot of ways is why they do the bundles. Cost of developing table A, B, and C might be the same, but knowing table A is going to sell like gangbusters but B and C won't would make them less likely to wanna make tables B and C. So they bundle, this negates needing to recoup the costs of development, and those fans of B and C get to be happy too.

​@@blahcadepinballIt still means people who like A but not B or C are having to pay more than they otherwise would have which sucks for them.

Please don't mix up the two really different and distinctive terms here: Pack and Bundle. In relation to the Steam selling platform a pack is a single product you can buy on Steam. In a pack the publisher (Zen in this case) puts several tables in the pack and they are sold as a single product. A bundle though is a different thing: It's a collection of several products you can also buy individually on Steam put together to be sold as a bundle for a discount price. - Two different things!

@@larsscholz3762 So what? We all knew what each other was talking about. Those might be the Steam definitions but those aren't the only valid terms in which this can be discussed.

Did you play the tables pre fix and post? The funny part is, I had no problem playing with the lag. I had the number 1 score on WCS for weeks, posted a number 2 score on AFM, and have been top 50 on most of Zen's tables at one time or another. Post fix, they play more responsive and are a ton of fun. Yes, the physics are a little different from Pinball FX, which are a little different from FX3. What's your point? And please don't argue the physics of The Pinball Arcade were better, because yikes. I did have a laugh at Creature from the Black Lagoon because I have never played a real Creature machine that played the same as another (nor has Jared), and the AtGames version follows suit from the PinFX version. It's still fun as hell though.

@ you’re avoiding the question. The tables aren’t 4k. They are not even 1080p. Everyone got ripped off. They promised 4k , Mel promised it , PK the owner promised it , and it was all a lie. Not to mention they still don’t have the 3D effects working well and don’t have tournaments working likenFX3 or FX. But again. It’s not 4k. Everyone was promised 4k. That was the selling point. Otherwise why buy a 4k ALP instead of just keeping with the AlP , using OTG , and not having to pay for every game again.

@@therexershow again, I'm asking you to show me where Mel said or promised these in 4K. When did Mel promise tournaments would work just like FX? Zen does not control those, AtGames does. Now obviously in this interview, Mel is saying they'd like to introduce something that maybe has more parity with what PinFX does for tourneys, but that's far from a promise. Now, the selling points for me were a) a cabinet that had a proper look and shape to it, b) the TAF skin, c) the 3rd monitor, d) having Zen titles available. I honestly thought I was only going to be playing on this in OTG, but the reality is I prefer native play especially because of the SSF kit. Turns out that is much more important to my enjoyment than perfect lighting and rails that don't alias. Also, there's a reason Zen wasn't going to be on the original ALP, and it's because of CoinOps X. Zen is very protective of their licenses and of the licensors they work with.

@ did t you ask him last interview why the games ran so poorly in 4k. Didnt they release them in 4k because Atgames promised 4k. If you’re saying Mel himself never said it in an interview , then fine, but don’t be naive and understand that Zen and Atgames had a partnership, and Atgames promised these tables in 4k. PARTNERSHIP. If zen couldn’t do it , then they should have spoken up and told Atgames to stop saying it. To stop representing it in their flyers and videos. Youre protecting Mel, and the fact is Mel promised Atgames 4k, and Atgames promised the customer. MEL IS ZEN . ZEN IS MEL. and zen told Atgames they could do the games in 4k. End of story. Saying “Mel never said it “ is just stupid. It’s like selling a boat , and it sinks and saying “well they never actually said the boat would float . Did you ever hear the engineer says yes the boat would float? The guy who designed the boat never technically said in an interview the boat would float “. If I bought it , I’d be pissed. , but I was smart and didn’t and don’t care.

@@therexershow Ahh, so you didn't buy the ALP 4K, and therefore have no personal experience playing it? Interesting. I love it when people complain about things they with only 2nd hand knowledge, ignoring those with 1st hand. Our last interview with Mel was conducted in 2023, prior to the ALP 4K being released, prior to my owning the machine. So no, I did not ask him in any way, shape, or form "why the games ran so poorly in 4K". I just double checked, and at no point in that interview did Mel, Jared, or I even mention the words '4K', only referred to it as the AtGames cab. You are making assumptions that never took into account this running on an Android Rock Chip platform and what that could do. As for advertising, AtGames is entirely responsible for that and does not go through Zen. As a matter of fact, when they advertised the Star Trek skinned machine, they inserted playfield art that was from STERN's Trek, and Zen had to demand AtGames remove the ads, as Zen was just as surprised as everyone else to see that. I am definately not being naive to the situation, as I know a lot more than I am able to share. You say it's a fact that Mel promised AtGames delivery of Zen in 4K, yet without you having access to PK, Mel, and the contract signed, how can you be so sure? You have failed to provide any links to Mel making such promises. No conversation I have ever had with my connections at Zen or AtGames have ever mentioned Zen being in 4K, nor have I ever seen any documentation stating such a claim. You as a consumer have chosen not to purchase an ALP 4K partly I'm sure because of lack of 4K and that is a valid choice. Complaining and trying to rile up ALP 4K owners, telling them they've been duped and should sue, why? The overwhelming majority of us are happy with the product. I have listed a plethora of reasons why that is for myself, I have acknowlegded certain shortcomings, and I have explained why others have in no way decreased my enjoyment of the product. For someone who doesn't care, you sure have a funny way of showing it.

These were never 4K, not even close. They were also never advertised as being in 4K, for the same reason none of the Magic Pixel tables are. The cabinet is capable of displaying 4K content with its display. That’s it, end of story. Mel said exactly how they solved latency, and that was by coding for Linux, which is how Magic Pixel does it. And if you have one of these cabs, you’d be able to see the graphics actually did improve somewhat on certain tables.

@@blahcadepinball Yes they did. Do your homework. MANY videos are made saying they were 4k before latency fix. you did not ask mel what the resolution of these tables were before and after latency fix.

@@blahcadepinballwow. Who said they never promised in 4k? The whole Atgames company promised in 4k. The advertising is 4k , THEY SAID 4k ZEN . Why would they do them in 4k first if they didn’t ever promise in 4k. They duped you on this ? And have you seen the tables ? They look like crap.

@@therexershow Why do you ask if I"ve seen the tables? I'm pretty sure I've made it clear that I own the ALP 4K and I have played all the Zen tables prior to and after the lag fix. What is your experience with the ALP 4K? I don't know what AtGames advertised exactly, perhaps you can screen shot or post me a link regarding the Zen tables being presented in 4K? What I do know is what Mel has said, and considering we are one of the only places he does interviews, I probably heard it first hand. Zen has not ever said the tables would play in 4K resolution. Anyone who thought they would was simply deluding themselves about what the hardware running these is capable of. I have an RTX 4060 on my PC for OTG, it can't run 4K without serious lag, so why would I believe an Android chipset could? More to the point, why would you? I have also made it clear that no, these ports to not have the same graphical or lighting fidelity of Pinball FX. That being said, I stand by the fact that as you play them, it hardly becomes a concern. 9 times out of 10 I find myself playing the AtGames version over the OTG Pinball FX version. If they were so incredibly terrible as you suggest, it'd be the opposite.

@@kevgret I'll let you do the homework. Post a link here where Zen stated the tables would be rendered in 4K. Not videos from other RUclipsrs, links to official sources from Zen. As someone who has had the ALP 4K since the beginning, I can tell you the Zen tables were 100% never in 4K, they weren't even in 2K. I would believe them being 1080p, but with many graphical downgrades, mainly in textures and lighting. I do know that post lag fix, Addams Family indeed looks better than before, with chrome rails actually looking it rather than being a flat grey being the obvious one. I love it when people try to gaslight me about things I've seen with my very own eyes on the actual product, not someone else's video.

Mel did say we'll be getting some day and date releases, probably around June. And if the success of The Thing and Chucky is any indication, I think more Pinball M is on the way!

Thank YOU, PK!

As I said, graphics and lighting are a lot better in OTG but once you are playing and in the moment, those aren't things that you concentrate on anymore. The SSF keeps you connected to game play, and that's the tipping factor right there. I also really do like the immediate satisfaction of table selection and load times in comparison to booting up the PC, Steam, PinFX, and finally load times of each table.

Lots more answers coming in less than a week, too!

Looking forward to you all being able to hear it!

Appreciate that! Lots more to come this weekend.

Star Wars and Marvel are not out of the question, it always just seems to take a while before they migrate over to new venues. There's 52 titles coming this year to ALP 4K, odds are we'll see something from either of those.

I would love to see it too, but it sounds like at least the SSF support will only be for the ALP 4K. We all need to message Deep and the team at Zen to give proper cabinet view, animated backglass, and none of that zoomed in plunger or mini playfield nonsense!

@@blahcadepinball Seems odd to ignore all the Steam users who want better SSF support and focus only on the smaller user based of ALP 4K owners. Hopefully they will figure something out.

Yes, just please credit us and link to our channel or website. The full 75 minute interview will drop next weekend where we talk all things Zen.

Zen does still have the Marvel license for all the prior stuff released. I do know that there's an open door to making new content, but Marvel is notorious for being stupidly expensive now that they are once more a juggernaut. The full interview drops next Sunday, and there's loads of content to digest beyond AtGames in it.

@@blahcadepinball Heh, X-Men / Juggernaut....