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Grammar Fellow Hreodbeorht
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Добавлен 20 апр 2020
I very much enjoy studying and talking about languages and plan on talking about studyings on this channel.
The Origin of Tibetan Writing and (written) Grammar
I talk about the beginning of Tibetan writing and (studied) grammar through a series of treatises, written by a minister who had extensively studied the Sanskrit models; the analysis of the actual texts starts at 5:45.
As I mention in the video, Tony Duff’s Standard Tibetan Grammar volumes I and II talk about Thonmi’s treatises in depth and feature many commentaries on them, but also about things like their historical context and foreign influence. Outside of these, I made use of John Powers’ Introduction to Tibetan Buddhism (part 2, about Tibetan history) for some historical information, as well as some other various articles with some minor contributions
The article which initially inspir...
As I mention in the video, Tony Duff’s Standard Tibetan Grammar volumes I and II talk about Thonmi’s treatises in depth and feature many commentaries on them, but also about things like their historical context and foreign influence. Outside of these, I made use of John Powers’ Introduction to Tibetan Buddhism (part 2, about Tibetan history) for some historical information, as well as some other various articles with some minor contributions
The article which initially inspir...
Просмотров: 5 620
Видео
Optionally Transitive Verbs in Georgian
Просмотров 1,3 тыс.4 года назад
I talk about some Medio-Active Georgian verbs which can take a direct object but are treated as intransitive verbs when no direct object is expressed outside of the verb, which is not how Georgian verbs generally Act. I go through two methods to prove that this is the case. The methodology was taken from Chapter 12 of Harris' "Georgian Syntax"
The Kartvelian Collective Marker and Aorist Series
Просмотров 1,3 тыс.4 года назад
Historical linguistics is cool. Most of the ideas in this video come from Alice Harris' Diachronic Syntax book, but there are some comments and examples from various sources mixed in there; let me know if you'd like any clarification there. Of course, when talking about historical linguistics there is often disagreement, and the Kartvelian language family is far from an exception in this matter...
Georgian's non-Ergative Aorist Series
Просмотров 1,9 тыс.4 года назад
I talk about some Georgian verbs.
The Tibetan Writing System and Phonetic Change
Просмотров 8 тыс.4 года назад
In this video, I show how the Tibetan writing system worked at its beginning, and justify the idiosyncrasies of the Modern Standard Tibetan writing system by considering the phonetic evolution of Old Tibetan since the script's creation and standardization. This video applies specifically to Modern Standard Tibetan, which is based on the dialect of Tibetan spoken in Lhasa. There are other dialec...
The Evidential Copulas of Standard Tibetan
Просмотров 2 тыс.4 года назад
An introduction to the evidential copulas of Modern Standard Tibetan. The information in this video applies specifically to Modern Standard Tibetan, which is a language based on the Tibetan dialect spoken in Lhasa. Other dialects can have different systems, and in particular the Classical and literary language(s) do not have such evidentials. Most of the information in this video comes from Tou...
Sanskrit had independent vowels but they can't be base letters whereas independant consonants could be.
I don't know why RUclips recommended this video, but I'm not gonna complain
On writing in verse, it’s really not too difficult to express yourself with clarity and brevity. Can’t speak for the Tibetan traditions, but the several I’m familiar with view meter and verse like a canvas to write upon. In kinda the same way classroom-English views sentences and paragraphs as natural divisions for an essay. So if you’re steeped in that kinda writing culture and you’re skilled in verse, writing flows naturally and it’s not an impediment at all.
This further lends to what valeryushakov1516 was saying. Thonmi wrote in a roundabout way because he probably wanted to write in a roundabout way. Verse most likely didn’t constrain him in ways that would lead to those issues
I would love to see or read about Tibetan phonology.
I used to speak ancient Russian. And after watching this video and doing some research about ancient Russian language, i had learned that my ancient Russian teacher duped me, had taken my money and had actually taught me modern Klingon instead. So i will leave you with this: .'Ter ,'chäl valhäla. Tarr'choon. (Tip: you must use a Klingon growly voice when saying this. And avoid spitting as well when saying this to anyone)
why does པོད་སྒད even use ་? it makes the text confusing
It's so interesting to know most of the Indic languages still keep unaspirated/aspirated/unvoiced/unvoiced consonants while the neighboring languages like Thai or Tibetan which borrowed Devanagari-derivative scripts slowly lose four distinct consonantal articulation and developed onset pitch accent or tones (except Punjabi). A parallel phonetical development, for example is seen in the sound shift from the Archaic Chinese to modern Cantonese: Voiced initials change into low register tones with aspirated consonants while unvoiced, unaspirated initials developed into high register tones.
So just like English /wr/ simplifies to /r/
Great video
Just from a simple historical linguistics/phonology lens, it's pretty clear that /wang/ comes from /dbang/ > /dvang/ > /zwang/ > /wang/.
Thank you for your research
The structure and content of the text is typical of most Sanskrit treatises, and reminds of the Ashtadhyayi, which was the one which started the grammar craze. Although A does describe the sounds and pronunciation in detail, its mostly to dictate precise sounds during Vedic ritual recitations for a language which was actually long gone (Vedic Sanskrit), and since Buddhism doesn't have this concept of sound precision to the extent of Vedism, and knowledge of the alphabet was already assumed, i guess that's why they left it out
Tibetan writing is just beautiful, very beautiful.
I wonder whether he was simply the first one to have written a grammar of Tibetan, and successive historiography turned him into the guy who invented Tibetan writing. Perhaps Tibetan writing evolved more organically?
Thank you for this recommendation, youtube. Very cool.
You mentioned the suffix -i and where could it come from. In Svan the word "is" is "li" in Megrelian it is "re", in Georgian it is "ari". In Svan there is no nominative case marker. In Svan "apple is" would be "Wisgw li" in Georgian apple in the nominative case is "Vashli" In Svan "dog is" would be "Jegh li" in Georgian dog in the nominative case would be "Dzaghli".
Hello. Do you have a favorite language?
it's good for the SCs of Tibetan and the Tibetan script... however, you cannot pronounce any of the vowels correctly 😭😭
25:20 This isn’t a source for that, but an example of analogous evolution in another language. In the video “History of the Japanese Language” by LingoLizard, it is stated that the Old Japanese P (a bilabial plosive like B is) became an F-like sound in Early Middle Japanese, which (when between vowels) later became W. This W then dropped out when before any vowel except A (since the syllables wi/we/wo had merged into i/e/o centuries prior, so the Old Japanese original W had also already ceased to exist before non-A vowels, and wu never existed). There are, however, some points of disanalogy, as Japanese is not a tonal language and (if the glide Y and deceased glide W don’t count as clusters) its syllable structure never allowed consonant clusters in any position.
Japanese is not a tonal language, but at least a pitch accent language, as attested from the documents of Heian Period. Though I am not a scholar, a synchronic or diachronic approach to languages are most likely a good start to understand seemingly chaotic spelling problems.
@@joshyam4026 BTW do you know Tibetan? I’m asking because there’s a point in the video which has a discrepancy between what the guy’s voice says and what the onscreen text says.
interesting
22:39 I think that whole section about pre-initial consonants causing low tone aspirates to lose aspiration but gain voice is overly convoluted. Yes, modern Tibetan considers voicing secondary, but obviously the synchronic answer is it's voicing that conditioned tone. It was underlyingly /d/ that usually becomes low /tʰ/, but the m in the cluster /md/ prevented aspiration. Or something on those lines.
Btw, do you know what taut and loose mean in this video? I tried looking it up (just the first term) but couldn’t find any sources listing a definition related to phonology. I found some where the Google snippet previews for pages displayed some (seemingly contradictory) definitions, but I didn’t find those definitions when actually opening the webpages.
@@darkblade4340 what timecode minutes is that said?
@@kori228The first time is around 16:29
@@darkblade4340ah that's basically a more phonetic explanation of tonogenesis by glottal fold tension/pressure. The usual example of onset consonant tonogenesis is voiceless = high, voiced = low. Final consonant tonogenesis is final stops (especially a glottal stop) condition a rising/high tone; final fricatives condition a falling/low tone. But it's actually more complicated than that, it has to do with tension/pressure of the glottal folds. There's both voicing and phonation. I don't have a reference, but iirc it's: consonants that require closing the glottis cause a buildup of pressure that conditions a high pitch upon release (or condition a creak-to-phonation low>high=rising pitch), while consonants with an open glottis doesn't have that tension so it's kinda neutral. If the glottis is vibrating (i.e. voiced) or extra breath is forced through (i.e. breathy) though, it causes the sound to be murmured, lowering the pitch. Depending on where the consonant that conditions this phonation contrast is, it can lead to different pitch contours. An onset open-glottis voiced/breathy consonant will likely start low (though a open-glottis voiceless consonant like fricatives or aspirated stops start high), while a final open-glottis will likely end low. An onset tense glottis likely starts high (or creak-to-phonation low-high=rising) while a final tense-glottis can end high or low (it doesn't need to release the pressure at the end, so it may just end low creak without releasing into phonation).
@@kori228 So what is a basic definition of the terms taut and loose within the context of this video, and the specific letters which fall into each description? Thank you for the previous reply.
Why “They consider us righteous” is “მათ ჩვენ მართლები ვგინივართ” and “They consider you righteous” is “მათ შენ მართალი ჰგონიხარ”? I mean why is not ჰ- used in ვგინივართ instead of ვ- ?
This video helped me understand more about Georgian grammar from a historical linguistics perspective. As a learner of Georgian, this video helped with understanding why there certain things are the way they are in modern Georgian.
Also, Georgian is definitely undergoing even more change and evolution as I notice, especially with this new generation.
Thank you for this video.
As a student of Tibetan, I found this video very useful. You explained the evidential aspects that are usually not taught or not emphasized enough to students. At minute 16:14, I think the Past Egophoric should be pa-yin (not pa-yo'). Thank you so much for your efforts, I got a lot out of the video!
Thank you for your Hard Work and teaching..
Lovely. Basque has auxiliaries that are polysynthetic.
Thank you 🎉 I was in Mcleod Ganj in '89. This fills the gaps
This is so helpful. Thanks.
I don’t see རེད་འདུག་ here but your labels help. Essential-existential. Interesting.
As a Basque speaker, while there are many differences, it's cool to see the many similarities in the verb systems of Basque and Georgian
This was very helpful, thank you for this video
BUDDHA BLESS THE TIBETANS
where I can find your videos? there are only 5 on RUclips
2:04 "შეშას" is incorrect, it's "შაშს" (შაში - checkers)
4:50 "აკეთება" is incorrect, it's "აკეთებს". Same for "გააკეთება", it's "გააკეთებს". 6:01 "ძაიღლება" is incorrect, it's "დაიღლება". 12:14 "იცეკვევს" is incorrect, it's "იცეკვებს"
Bro im georgian myself and your accent is amazing. You should keep posting
Can anyone explain, when it is written clearly as bod བོད། why pronounce it as bho བཿོ ? When it is clearly written as chos ཆོས། why pronounce it as chhö ཆོ། when it is clearly written as vajra, why pronounce it as benza? When it is clearly written as jigsmed, why pronounce it jimé. There are no suffix or prefix here….
Tibetan spelling is dogshit in general
In “བོད” or bod “d” or “ད” is the suffix and it changes the vowel sound “o” to “ö” hence it’s pronounced “bö”. Same with the word “chos”, “s” is the suffix so it changes the vowel sound to “ö”. “D” is the suffix in Jig-med. As for vajra (བཛྲ) being prounced benza is dependent on the speaker. The letter བ is pronounced either as “ba” or “wa” depending on the context like pillar is ཀ་བ (ka-ba). There maybe a “ba” in pillar/ka-ba but the ba is supposed to be pronounced as wa. In some dialects, people pronounce བ as wa in more words than others and vice versa. I have noted some Amdo Tibetan speakers prounced བོད་པ/bod-pa as wod-pa. Maybe the person that transliterated vajra thought བ would be fit to denote the “va/wa” sound since the latter is used as to denote “va/wa” sound in Tibetan words but the reader is more accustomed to pronouncing the letter as “ba”. Another example would be བབ/descend which I would pronounce as “bab” but I have Tibetans who speak other dialect prounced it as “wab”. The written script and language is uniform but the pronouncation is greatly influenced by the speakers/readers’ native dialect.
Re silly ways of enumerating things. What people perhaps don't appreciate is how easily texts are corrupted when copied. Anyone who worked with Tibetan sources have their share of stories about comical and/or devious corruptions and misreadings. When you just list a single letter in isolation it's very easy for it to get mangled, without anyone even noticing whiskey tango foxtrot has happened too (look up e.g. "error correction and detection" in information theory). So long and roundabout ways of referring to things is also a layer of protection. It's much harder to accidentally garble "the last of the first row" than to accidentally write da instead of nga. It's not uncommon for tantras to re-spell mantras letter by letter in this way.
Great point!
Brilliant video, top notch linguistics. Have you published anything academically?
Not in linguistics! I do math.
@@grammarfellowhreodbeorht3691 Bummer! Hope to see more videos of yours in the near future.
thank you
Very helpful video, as a beginner learning to pronounce modern/standard Lhasa Tibetan! Thank you! 🙏 There is a parallel to the non-pronounced suffix affecting the vowel quality (eg. མ་ /ma/] vs མད་ /mä'/) in Southern Italian languages/dialects. While standardized Italian (ie. Tuscan grammar with Roman phonology) has "buono" (m.) va. "buona" (f.) for "good" with the final vowel indicating gender, in many Southern dialects the final vowel is muted or destressed into a schwa, so the penultimate vowel takes on a different quality to indicate grammatical gender. Examples (Accetturese dialect): "bbune" ['b:unə] (m.) vs. "bbone" ['b:onə] (f.) for "good" and "frédde" ['fred:ə] (m.) vs. "frèdde" ['frɛd:ə] (f.) for "cold". It's fascinating how spoken languages evolve to "fill in the gaps" left by features that were lost over time! And it seems that modern Tibetan has one of the best written examples of sound change. It all seems systematic, contrary to popular videos decrying its 'disorder', and you start out your video. Thai is similar, in this respect, but has many more homophones than Tibetan. Trashi Delek!
Really clearifing and enjoyable ❤️💐
Please make more videos on Georgians
10:39😹😹.....its pronouced "lob-dra"....or how kids these days pronounce "lop-ta"
16:17 it's "ཁང་པ" for house....anyways excellent job on the video
AVERAGE GEORGIAN MALE ON HW ON HIS TO WAY TO INFLECT VERBS
I am learning Tibetan and I took an undergraduate linguistic course many years ago as an English major. Your video is really useful but it would be so good if you could break in down into discrete lessons (maybe 10), each focusing on a particular evidential category with different examples (even if not idiomatic). Anyway, amazing work. This is so intelligent.
Please, could you tell me how you are learning tibetan?
@@shotto9167I am following the ManjuTib channel.
@@rickylumo8666 I didn't know about this channel, thank you!
A small typo: 17 min 13 sec: what you say is correct (voiced consonants got reanalyzed as low tones), but the slide says the opposite.
Another typo at 21:00
What about 30:51, when there’s another discrepancy between what he says and what the slide says?
Thank you so much! This is a great talk. It's illuminating to see the new ("illogical") way of writing explained as a result of phonetic changes and shifts. Although, not being a linguist, I did have to stop it quite a few times to let it "sink" and to look up the linguistic terms you are using. I just started learning Tibetan. Ultimately, I aim to be able to read classical Tibetan works. However, I like to pronounce things correctly. Could you recommend where one could hear the right pronunciation guidance (spoken by native speakers)? Not just the consonants but also new sounds that are the results of subscripts, etc.? Thanks a lot!
This video was really complicated but I enjoyed it. I struggled to follow though.