Видео

I like to see complete unknowns in scifi movies. I want to feel I'm stepping into a completely new world. This is why injecting a modern sensibility is SUCH a turnoff to me. The first part had none of that, which helped me skate over the familiar faces. Can't have everything, which is fine. But if you're selling this as Something Unlike Anything You've Ever Seen, seeing modern gender role politics is a real bringdown.

A positive review of Herberts post-Children of Dune books said Herbert took the ideas of the first three books and then went DEEPER. I really like that idea, of not trying to widen the universe so much as to delve deeper into them. I haven't read the last Herbert Dunes but look forward to them. I'm all for improving characters, but this just felt forced, and blatant. There are ways of deepening the character without it feeling so fake.

Please do. I am a found footage junkie, but most of them are bad. This is at the very top of the pile. Welcome aboard!

I love the Lynch movie, warts and all (and not just on the Baron's face. Is this thing working?). I thought I posted a video about it on here. Next time I descend from the attic and hit the storeroom I'll see if I can find it. Lynch's version is original--it's genuinely WEIRD, which more science fiction should be. Imagine Lynch directing a Star Trek movie...

I'm trying to remember how the character was treated in the TV miniseries. Chani is an absolute blank in the Lynch version, which is one reason I still dream about an expansion. (Lynch says no.)

@@UpInTheAtticJSW In the miniseries Chani played the straight up romantic interest of Paul and she was loyal to the cause ,not part of a separate Fremen faction. She conflicted a bit with Jessica because Jessica wanted to control Paul's children. Chani in the new film is miscast and turned into an angry 'strong woman' . I haven't bothered to look up why she wanders off by herself at the end . The 2 miniseries are far superior to these new films for me.

Terrific post. I suspect Herbert knew all of this when he was writing. P.S. The Analog art was by John Schoenherr, and began an association between him and Dune that lasted decades. He's my favorite DUNE cover artist. (Vincent DiFate and Bruce Pennington are right up there.)

I used to be able to watch anything out of curiosity. Now I find I just don't have that morbid curiosity. I'll probably stumble on it years from now and be too tired to change the channel.

It’s better than the first one. It’s Empire Strikes Back to A New Hope.

It amazes ME you posted a longish post that has nothing to do with my actual thoughts. I want to see what ethics and morals could be in the future, guided by human (future) history and imagined norms. I don't want to see a 2024 figure injected into Frank Herbert's well-thought-out imaginary future. Please take your virtue signalling elsewhere.

Um. The wider story of Dune is ultimately a cautionary tale about a great many things as most science fiction of the 1960s was. It's a tragedy. Dune is all the bad things about humanity played on the scale of galaxies. In the context of the wider story changing Chani actually means the version of Chani you're defending is wrong. Like a lot of Dune Chani is a representation of something, a stand in. And just like a lot of Dune it's a send up of the idea represented. It is ironic to champion anything in Dune because the very act of it being in the Dune universe makes it kind of a bad thing. Or it wouldn't be there.

If this was a problem you had to use some outsider. You could have Paul and Jessica talking about it and make it extra clear they know they are using the Fremen religion to their own personal goals. But you should never use the Fremen. Because their religious fanaticism is a key plot element. Once you undermine this key plot element, you undermine the entire plot. Not to say you severely destroy Chani's tragic arc. Which in turn destroys a lot of what is the emotional power behind events all the way into Children of Dune. This is incredibly dumb..... Its like you do not understand the books at all and what are their key elements. And you just write yourself into a corner where you cant possibly hit the same emotional notes the books manage to achieve. You are stuck with something which will feel without a soul.

@@Ruimas28 yeah thats very fair, like i said i think its very reasonable to not like the change even if i personally think it works for what dennis was trying to do. my issue was with this video in particular was the whole feminism angle this guy was talking about

@harrybiz3523 Exactly the problem. It isn't for Dennis to "fix the story" and tell us how to feel about something. It's to tell a story and let the audience decide. This is a trope that has popped up a lot lately, the filmmakers trying to set the moral bar for the audience, as if they know better.

@@Luciphell but he saw that letting the audience decide doesnt work well with dune and it would be stupid of him to not use that hindsight. and thats not to say its the fault of dunes writing, dennis wasnt trying to "fix" the story he was just making the intent clearer because unfortunately a lot of people wont think very critically about it. it sucks that he had to do that but again if you already know people are going to interpret your movie incorrectly it would be dumb not to do anything about it

@@harrybiz3523 It's this sort of thinking that is the problem. "We know better, we don't want you to come to your own conclusions since they may be ones we do not approve of, so we are going to hit you over the head with it until you get it right." It's a Liberal writing trope that has taken prominence over the past decade.

in the book its revealed a large portion of the troops were sardaukar wearing harkonnen gear to try to hide the fact that the emperor was behind the attack

Correct. ✅ Had the same thought.

The lynch version was WEIRD--it looked, sounded and felt like an alien universe. I forgive a lot if a movie creates a truly original world.I agree about the mysticism--but Lynch's movie cries out to be a miniseries--there was little drama, we were TOLD so much that should've been dramatized. I'm curious as to how Part 2 handles that, but so far the religious/ethnic grouping and their conflicts feel very Today. But we'll see when I watch the rest.

Lynch makes some genuinely intelligent movies, and yet he never talks down to the audience--he assumes we are all smart enough to grasp what's going on, even if it's kind of vague and mystical.

These responses are, of course, mine, and they're personal, and can change. I don't turn off a movie because of its perceived politics, but THIS time it just felt so arbitrary. (I cut a line about how I LIKE this character better than the Lynch and Herbert Chanis.) I reserve the right to change my mind. :)

i wonder how would Chani be portray in Messiah.

@@komasdfg We all know they will make Chani an insufferable "Strong Female" "GirlBoss" pseudo antagonist in the next movie, because of girl power and because is impossible for Hollywood to stop this tendency of avoid following the source material, absurd...

@@joelburgos69Many in Hollywood can only create female characters that are either nothings or gods. They're not much better with male characters but audiences don't want to see weak men; they're okay with nothing women who just look good.

I'm a sucker for any movie set in the future.

That's 'over thirty.' My header is just a joke. Thanks for commenting.

I agree Agutter and York looked age-appropriate, but TBH I've never thought Jordan looked too old. Maybe I've known a lot of hirsute guys. In The Friends of Eddie Coyle a few years earlier, I thought he looked around 23.

@@UpInTheAtticJSW I can see Jordan as looking young for 38 by 1970s standards and passing for under 30 then. I think I first watched the entire movie around 2000 and thought he looked old for the part at the time.

@@dlxmarksYou've hit on the answer. I was 14 when I saw it on TV in 1980. Everyone over 16 looked old to me.

I dunno what you mean, I'm 14. (We are talking IQ, right?)

Absolutely. My first R flick, too! I went with some adult neighbors who were also into SF. It was everything I'd hoped it'd be and more. Absolutely one of the great SF movies.

@@UpInTheAtticJSW It is -- check out the "White Dragon cuts" here on the tube. Japanese guy called Kazuchoice is adding the unused Goldsmith score scene-by-scene. He's only just started though but has done a lot of Bladerunner edits.

It's fun to break things up a little now and then. Plus, this way gives folks an idea of the tone of the movie instead of me yapping about it. Thanks for the feedback, it's always helpful.

I love hearing people's horror reading stories. It is so cool how even in these days of megabuck movies, just words can really get your mind racing. The Lovecraft that grabbed me was "The Rats in the Walls." I expected the rats to be the horror, and am not particularly scared of them knock wood. But the rats are merely a side-effect of the underground ruins. Have you ever read "Sticks" by Karl Edward Wagner? It's one of the very best "Lovecraftian" stories by a writer who isn't HPL. The earlier writer who HPL adored is Algernon Blackwood, whose "The Willows" is still a great read.

@ I haven’t read any Blackwood but I might check him out at some point. I haven’t read “Sticks” either but it’s interesting that this is the second time in a couple of months that Wagner has come up to me on YT. A channel that is heavily or completely into Robert E Howard (now the only writer left that I religiously collect) brought him up in regard to his work with REH characters but also a trilogy of all original material that I now plan on reading. I’ve only read his book Legion From the Shadows about Howard’s Bran Mak Morn character. Loved it and still have the same vintage paperback copy I bought and read just over 40 years ago.

@@AndrewFloydWebber KEW's sword and sorcery stories are considered by some folks to be the closest thing to REH. His short horror stories are some of my favorites.

It almost spoiled my first viewing of the movie, I kept thinking "That's Brian Cox!" I had to stop the movie and check the credits. They should play brothers.

Not only didn't I forget it, there's a video for it right here!

Guy was a character, to say the least.

An eyeball growing out of my shoulder = maximum "Yuck!"

I'm not a big Disney viewer. But the oldest features--SNOW WHITE up to the fifties--have an artistry that is very interesting. I do recommend ALICE, obviously, and PINOCCHIO and FANTASIA. Anyone with a solid knowledge of cinema such as yourself might enjoy these, if only to get an idea of why Disney's been so influential. My favorite animated features are not from Disney--ALLEGRO NON TROPPO, for example. The occassional animated feature is a nice change from all the black and white crime flicks we love.

That's how I pronounced it. Sheesh, don't you people even listen before you pounce?

Mb i just wanted to correct you

@@bread10th I'm from Boston, maybe my accent is scaring you. I get no respect around here... :( I used to live with several folks from Europe who sometimes broke into laughter because they couldn't understand what I was saying because of my accent. Which is weird, since I don't have an accent, it's everyrone else! Thanks for the comment.

Everyone's gotta dream.

Thank you very much, you're too kind. I (and a lot of people) have mixed feelings about Derleth, and his creation of 'good' and 'bad' elders/old ones, a direct contradiction to HPL, who would never assign human morality to such alien beings. And Robson reminded me of one of my grandmothers, Hope to get your feedback again, all new stuff is ahead.

@@UpInTheAtticJSW I’m looking forward to it! 👍🏻

Correct! Also a pioneer of the Scary Underground subgenre.

It was such a shock to me to later see her playing queens in costume dramas, she's so convincing as a New Englander. (Really the only one in the cast who seemed like the kind of old bird you find in the area.)

I love Excalibur. I got my youngest brother hooked on it, and he can recite it from memory, almost as perfectly as It's a Wonderful Life.

It's genuinely disturbing, something many more famous, big studio flicks of the time were not.

Interesting, I didn't think of that. I have to roll this one around in my head, but it does make sense. Thanks for the comment.

In interviews at the time, Nimoy and Harve Bennett were consciously doing this. This one feels more adult, and at the same time it has more Heinlein-ish storytelling. I wish they tried another such trilogy with 5, 6, and 7. Two trilogies of the original cast.

Nimoy said at the time he was going for something 'operatic.' Seen now, that makes sense. It has its own tone, and it's just grown on me over the years.