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What is notching up and down? Notching is a really dumb word to use......🤔

@@CapaUno1322 it's basiclly flying to the side of where the guy is locking you and what i mean of notching up and down means that if the ARH or SARH missile losses lock from the mother aircraft it goes into inertial drift and this manuver trips it off and forces the missile to go for chaff

Same

isn't that just the RWR going dark because it only detects stuff around you and not directly above your aircraft? I noticed this the other day but I realised it must just be an RWR shenanigan because the radar signature should be massive with the massive perpendicular surface of my wings.

@@agiliteka yeah, but then why does it work? it makes literally no sense, but it works. you can see them fade and lose lock in higher end RWRs like on the F-15s and F-16s. Well ya got me, by all accounts it doesn't make sense.

Yesn't! Yes modern Radars and missiles can counteract multipathing but there are still deadzones where you are too close to the floor and the radar can't really detect you. The main issue in War Thunder is that Trees and houses do not have impact on the multipath height. Which is an issue when some trees tend to be higher then 75 meters tall xD

@@RagingRaptorWT sounds weird fdor me, so in DCS and rea; life u need to almost hug the ground like in WT to survive ?

I wrote in an earlier comment. I am still not 100% confident in giving solid advice to tackle the mayhem of toptier air RB. However in the "early game" very often you can defeat a lot of missiles through simply having more energy then them. A lot of people shoot their ARH's very early on at high altitude at like 30 km. Here if you basically pull long enough into the notch or even fly cold you can defeat them. But I agree, too many people are in toptier! 10v10 should be the max at toptier 🤝

Appreciated <3

RB99 is the Swedish AMRAAM ( which I use when the Gripen shoots me), which in the game is a straight-up copy and paste with a different name. They have the exact same Guidance Values as well as PID Controlling values. Mica has the same guidance values but different PID Controlling Values.

@@RagingRaptorWT But there is no grippen in the video?.... am i missing something? I went to watch the entire thing again and you only did it against mica and phoenix.

@@goliath3413 Woops, you are correct! I had around 40+ mins of footage of me notching in the end in the F15J and Tornado. Where I also fought the Gripens RB99. I somehow thought I included it but went against it as the video was already fairly long at 13 minutes. But as mentioned above, the Guidance values, the values which influence how hard to notch or defeat a missile with chaff is, are the same across all the new ARH missiles. some have different PID values for manouvering due to their different fins. MICAS with Wings + Thrust Vectoring, AMRAAMS with just fins, R77s with grated fins.

Thanks Wubb 🤝

Well soon you might have the Iranian F14A :P So there you will definitely see the Phoenixes / Fakours! Glad you liked it :3

Well I am working on it but its also rather rough I know. Main issue is, I don't know how to get it fixed. Also I assume its more swiss then german accent :P

@@RagingRaptorWT u are doing a fine job :)

@@Josh_Exitcamper Thank you mate!

From my understanding as well as others which worked on the missile spreadsheet, regardless if you have a hardlock or not, at 5km range the ARH Missile will ALWAYS use its own seeker head ( for all the modern ARH's like PL12, AMRAAM, MICA). So you always got to "notch" the missile in that case. We also tested that where the enemy aircraft flys into your notch, aka trying to cut the distance down rather then flying straight and we got the same effect where you fly into the notch, chaff and the missile is defeated. You can see this in the Video at around 10:00

I wouldn't call it unrealistic, as it is a valid tactic also in real life. However you are correct, obviously modern engineering wants notching not to work. However I want to be the devils advocat here, I believe some decent counterplay is important for the games health right now. Otherwise its just a point and click adventure with very little brain activity involved *cough* F14 Phoenix spammers *cough*

Currently I am averaging around 2.5 K/D in things like the F16C / F15J (M). I am still not 100% confident enough to give a proper guide on how to play toptier, but one thing I noticed early on is, shooting your ARH's at the beginning of the game, tend to give poor results as obviously people flying high up are more likely to know how to defeat ARH's. I tend to use them more in the mid game where a lot of people already are missing a lot of missile load and are less likely to think you still have some. But again, I am not 100% certain of a decent tactic yet. I do agree, the current toptier meta is kinda.... meh to say at least. I also prefer playing 12.3 max or stay a tad lower. However there you have the issue of F14's being very dominant.

@@xXC4tuneXx the rule of thumb is: if you are going to notch/turn cold, you have to send an arh missile towards your enemy. That way you won't get hunted after you've defeated the first missile. Also try to be as aggressive as you can if you aren't outnumbered. Fox3 tactics is a game of "how much risk I can take without being killed". You have to close the distance as much as you possibly can without eating an aim120. That way your missiles will be really dangerous and you'll get a lot of kills

@@RagingRaptorWT yeh i get around a 3 kd on average in my fgr2, the missiles working helps a lot but also the worst thing you usually deal with is 54s and 7ms

@@ВячеславФролов-д7я but the problem is my r-darters just do not hit, like they feel actually broken. I have little trouble getting kills( often aces) in my fgr2 but the gripen is outclassed in every aspect but turn rate

@@RagingRaptorWT also f14s arnt too bad (my squad mate has been using his for a while so I'm always at 12.3) but an uptier against planes 20 years newer feels a little silly 🤣

kek

Tbh after watching this vid I've been able to dodge fox-1' and fox-3' more consistently. But gaijin moments still happen

@@InuPlays Hey its an improvement!

Sadly that is a bug of the replay :) You can see its Chaff due to it being a blue dot in the Tacview ( lower screen). In Tacview Flares are orange --> Which you might see soon in a guide on how to dodge IRCCM missiles!

@@RagingRaptorWT honestly fox 3 missiles are very laggy right now. I notch and chaff perfectly but the missile just don’t care. The only solution i found is to spam until he go away but i will try again with less chaff.

Hence why I am not the biggest fan anymore of flying mega low. At least in the beginning of the game. It feels very inconsistent with the Multipath height being moved lower

When notching in Sim the missile supposed to be at your 9/3 o'clock, and when it's Start moving behind you that means you evade it well and can turn back to strike down your enemies.....but careful to the 50g missile that requires you and turn fast.

Well Yeh. Especially with the more modern missiles you very often have to turn in again, making a "big" circle around the launch aircraft to keep the notch. I can't say for sure as I didn't play 13.7 SIM yet, but yesterday I played the YAK-141 in Sim and reliably dodged Phoenixes and 7F/M's while fighting america!

Moin :) I explained at the end ( 11:46 ) again what I did wrong in the first clip. Simply put, I panicked and didn't have a decent notch, because to be fair, the Tornado is more of a Turdnado with how it turns and with how limited the Rudder Authority is. When I was in the "notch" I panicked due to the IOG of the missile and turned out rather than going up or down in the straight line. I believe it is important to show mistakes, especially if you learn from them!

1. For some reason in wt notch works better if the missile is slightly behind an ideal notch (not 3-9 o'clock but 3:30-8:30) 2. With wt magic ARH missiles keep re-locking on your exact location as soon as your chaff cloud dissapears. The best solution is to don't notch prematurely, but keep fighting until the missile flies close to you, than quickly hit the notch and continue to press your target. This skill comes with experience

Especially in early game you tend to defeat long range ARH's not really through notching but through energy bleed as @user-if4zv5nj5m correctly commented bellow. In the end you got to try and get a gutfeeling on if you defeated a missile or not. I try to gather some gameplay of me having some decent games where I showcase how I play toptier.

Sadly that is a bug of the replay, I can assure you it was Chaff, you can even hear the difference in sound. At 11:46 when I revisit the clip you can see the chaff puff clouds in tacview :)

As funny as it would be, I take the 228 <3

Damn ig we all gotta like now that someone ruined it

Notching is faster than kinematically defeating, which gives you the advantage

@@ВячеславФролов-д7я also risky especially if you don't have an advanced rwr . Easy enough to do in the tornado now try it with a mig 29

@@devonthompson9081 no risk no reward

Yes I played it poorly :) Am I proud of screwing it up this bad? No! But I am okay with showing my mistakes and how to learn from it. In the end this clip sparked this whole video. However I doubt I am able to kinetically defeat the Phoenix frontally with a tornado at this altitude, hence why I went into the notch. At 11:46 I revisit the clip again and showcase the mistakes I did :)

@@ВячеславФролов-д7я fair enough . I only notch when dude launches at like 8km and I have no chance of defeating the middle kinematicaly . Notching requires chaff and if I was to chaff every missle I would need to rtb before I had a chance to use all my missles

Glad you appreciate it

Uninstall the game

@@shahbaz6741 I 100 certain you suck at at the game yet youre telling someone to uninstall

Just hit the notch

@user-if4zv5nj5m Already doing that but seems to be just a 50/50 plus they missile will at the minimum be 7km away from me when I have fully reached the notch

@@shahbaz6741 original

fly low, perpendicular and you won't get hit

I do agree the F14's are way too low of a BR, but it is also important to know how to counter the enemies weaponary.

@@SalePlouck I know that, but for exemple, multipath with it doesn't work, and if you notch it, you'll be way too far from de battlefield and then you won't be able to get more the 2/3 kills

(multipath may work but not for me (even really close), and in any case, the msl has so much explosive mass that it will act like bomb and kill you even after toutch the ground.) Tbh, an ammram is for me way easier to make untrack you

🤝 Parkour Glad to hear you enjoyed it. I on purpose didn't cover every single RWR otherwise the video would be too bloated. Already at 13min I felt like it got too long. Very Briefly tho, normal beep beep beep, is when its just a "ping" of a radar, aka the radar flashlight went over you. "slow" Weewooweewooweewoo is basically that someone has a hard lock, but didn't launch yet fast weewoo wee woo wee woo is launch of missile. However it also depends on the RWR however, what they are capable to show, how many sectors ( if any, get screwed F104 ASA) Hence why I think a medium dive to learn RWR might be a good next step, or SARH VIdeos :) And the last one. It kind of depends. Its a bit of a feeling. For example if you are high up, at like 5km altitude, Obv the enemy missile has a longer range. so if you can see the enemy launched at like 26km, You can very often just straight up dodge the missile purely kinetically. In closer engages you can very often even see the missile wosh by because of the smoke trails. And another indicator can be if you see the "MSL" RWR Ping going from one side of your plane to another

The Booster Curse

I've been experiencing a drastic missile performance oppression every time I play in a squad. I have a descent kd (at least above 2, and above 3 in good planes), as my squadmates, and they experience it too. We can be flying separately while talking in the DS, but as soon as we create a squad, everything begins. All r73s shots 1.5 km away rear aspect at burning target go to the first flare, r27s refuse to fly towards a single hot target in the area, flying random circles instead, aim120s and r77s sometimes deflecting from a clear hot bandit to his chaff. Today I got a clean hit by a Phoenix. It was launched from far away, I've seen it on my rwr, I've done a perfect notch (3:30 o'clock), was dumping chaff and was changing my direction slightly. I evade more than dozen arh missiles that way most of the top tier matches, but gaijin decided that we were killing too many red guys, so a single easiest Phoenix ruined my game. I had multiple occasions when my sparrow was flying perfectly at the interception point of a clueless unaware target, but when it was about 2 km away, it drew a perfect half-circle around that guy and continued moving in the previous direction. Yes he had less than 0.5 kd and was flying a fresh-bought premium jet. Damn aim9j launched at me from 2 km hit me, despite I've been evading it like a fcking r73 - dropped the afterburner, was popping a huge amount of flares, maneuvered the way that flares were exactly between my engine and the missile- a typical r73 evasion. That BS doesn't happen all the time, but at least at several occasions each match for every one of us. And as soon as we disband the squad, all of a sudden missiles start to perform normally.

@@ВячеславФролов-д7я you know what i get this sort of bs when in a premade-squad, get 7f's pulling 90 degree turns for me

scizo thunder

@@verynice001 frfr no cap