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You should try it. It is a culinary thing but a rare one where engineering acumen is more important than artistry.

Happy to help.

Thanks for the comment. I keep forgetting things and adding them randomly to the next video!

Thanks for the comment!

Agree. PID gets better stability than any other system. I'm working on one application - column control with bottom temperature only - where it is being particularly difficult to implement!

@@tight1449 I'm watching every vid you make, this is right up my alley. Keep them coming Sir. 👌.

Yes sure, tightdistilling@gmail.com

Thanks for the comment

thanks for the comment.

The links seem to be working now. Let me know if it still fails and I find another hosting site.

Sound like your son may be the ideal collaborator. Do you use the ZK-PP2K for the heater? If so I guess you are using some power transistor drivers.

@@tight1449 I wired it up very simler to how you did in the video, PWM---SSR---element, max about 2K watts

@@Jack-It-UP Did it work? I would have thought the frequency would be too high to work with an SSR with 50Hz AC?

@@tight1449 Can ajust the frequency of the PWM from 1% to100%

@@Jack-It-UP Are you able to measure the actual power and corelate it with the % setting?

I've tried the same 15mm stripping column with a 35mm rectifying column and it works fine. When I was testing the stripping column for optimal length and angle, I found the critical thing was how much down flowing liquid from the rectifying column it could tolerate before the upcoming vapor drew the down coming liquid with it, making it flood, but that only seemed to happen with power settings of several hundred watts. So my guess is that the stripping column diameter would not have to be increased until the rectifying column was well over 50mm.

You can get them on AliExpress. Not sure if RUclips will let me post al link but they come up searching "high precision hydrometer." Link: www.aliexpress.com/item/1005008103523814.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.main.73.16650nT30nT381&algo_pvid=3e2a213f-3df3-479a-ad43-18b8c8ff7bef&algo_exp_id=3e2a213f-3df3-479a-ad43-18b8c8ff7bef-36&pdp_npi=4%40dis%21GBP%2124.99%2119.99%21%21%21221.54%21177.21%21%40210384db17323979099414098e1799%2112000043777655433%21sea%21UK%212490484436%21X&curPageLogUid=l4JWlFhLAAvg&utparam-url=scene%3Asearch%7Cquery_from%3A

Woops, I mean Hydrometers. If you don't want to add a link directly, any hints or key words that would narrow things down would help a lot.

@@tight1449 Awesome, Thanks heaps.

There are always things like WhatsApp. What is your time zone?

@ I’m in Queensland Australia

@@Jack-It-UP I'm currently on zulu time so 10 hours behind you

@@tight1449 are you on WhatsApp?. I have never used it.

I have not tried it but suspect that it would work, though you may not be able to get to 96.5%. You would probably get over 95 though.

I had a look at the datasheets. They are oscillating AC pumps so would be controlled by varying the AC frequency. That is easy enough to set up but their flow rates at 50-60 Hz with low pressure are quite high at 70-300 ml per minute so for my thin column you'd need a frequency of under 5Hz. Not sure how well they work at that frequency.

@@tight1449 My name's Peter, what's yours?

I'm fine, just busy!

Do you mean specifically on continuous distillation? I am planning to publish details on my still set up. I got it working reliably with a 28mm diameter column using column surface temperature measurements as control parameters but with such a thin column yield was low at about 50 ml spirit per hour. I tried to scale it to a larger column but the surface temperature system did not work. I am working on a bottom temperature control parameter for larger columns but do not yet have a system that is easy to replicate. If you are interested in the lower yield 28mm system I can provide full details.

Could work but you need a precisely controllable flow rate. A regulator would give you a constant pressure. You could add a fixed resistance to get constant flow but it would probably be difficult to vary it precisely as needed. I have used a system with gravity feed through a constant resistance varying flow by changing the height of a header tank but it was more difficult to set up than roller pumps.

I have only had 2 SSR failures, both from using inductive loads and both failed off but potential failure on is a significant safety issue. I'll need to add a fail safe. Do you mean chop AC type control with SCRs? I have looked at that system but have not used it yet as the off the shelf PID controllers I use are designed for SSRs. Not ideal as they are bulky, seem fragile, expensive and need a big heat sink!

@@tight1449 Thanks for the reply Tight. Yes I mean chop up the AC sine wave. Honestly your work has inspired a great many new ideas in our work. There is an email address I can be contacted in this video description on our channel. ruclips.net/video/xpbWG1T3-U4/видео.html I would very much enjoy initiating a correspondence to exchange ideas and solutions with you. Cheers Charles

@@tight1449 Most important is to use SCR with zero cross detection, in this way it will turn ON/OFF only when AC is crossing zero voltage hence greatly reduce failure probability...

My top end is similar to a Boka with slanting plates used to remove liquid from the column, but differs in that I have another packed column above the draw point for fractionation. The isothermal deflegmator at the column bottom is also different. I too prefer a packed column. It gives better results and costs less but is more demanding of precise control.

@@tight1449 Think i understand. I've used a 1m column to up the alcohol %, and i found it helped to be lagged with a neoprene jacket.

I found that lagging reduced the power consumption but also the proof slightly, presumably because of less reflux.

@@tight1449 oh.. really? i think the idea is that lagging increases the reflux. how long was the reflux tube? packed with?

lagging reduces heat loss so less vapour condenses on the inner surface of the column. Reflux condensers do the opposite by returning condensed liquid to the column. I found a consistent fall in % from 96.5 with no lagging to circa 95.5% with thick lagging on a 28mm by 1700mm packed column with stainless SPP.

I don't have experience of anything so large. What I have found with scaling up is: 1) better cut resolution 2) column cross section area needs to be roughly proportional to alcohol vapour flow rate 3) Behaviour changes because of relatively less heat loss from the column surface 4) Column height doe not seem to have to increase in proportion to diameter. I am making vodka so am not so fussy about cut resolution. I found that a columns of 1500 by 28mm, 1000 by 35mm and 1000 by 60mm work equally well. Were I making vodka at 6m3 ethanol vapour per hour or close to 10kg or 13l /hour I would try a 200mm column but that is for azeotropic fractional distillation. If you are not chasing 96% it could be a lot smaller.

@@tight1449 Thanks for replying. Agreed, the cuts should be stretched out, and much easier to remove the bitterness from my molasses run. So 6m3 is the same as 10kg, 13l/hr. not know that. if i have a 1000 liter still, then in an hour i would hope to be 50% through, so maybe 50l. I figured my condenser is 27 times larger than for a 100l still, and with a cooling rate 10 times higher, i hope i can achieve this, so can maybe stretch two runs in a day. But this is a guesstimate. I'd love to throw a bigger cooling pump at the thing, but i am limited to just 1hp. law of the land. The azeotropic process looked cool, but not sure why its an improvement on a continuous still. But then I've been only made vodka once at 96%, using a 1m lagged and packed reflux column. I feel I've missed my calling making spirits. Spent most of life writing code. ☺️

I use the azeotropic process on a continuous still. I found a noticeable difference in taste between 95% and 96+% before I used ozone and carbon filtration. No I do I'm not so sure!

@@tight1449 wow. what mash are you using?

Just sugar and Alcotec Vodka Star yeast, as per the instruction on the packet.

Do you mean as from as internal combustion engine? I have not tried it. There may be advantages but they are designed for hydrocarbon fuels not water so I doubt they would last long in this application.

Thanks I've seen it. Very clear and a lot better made than mine! What alcohol concentration of the waste are you getting? I had no luck using a sloping tube as a rectifying column and so I inject wash between the sloping tube and the vertical column but then my sloping tube is only 3m long and half an inch in diameter. To get a higher proof product I would suggest turning off the cooling water to the rectifying condensers and reducing the wash feed rate to around 5 ml per minute. What is the output from the PID controlling?

@@tight1449 If I put the wast through again it takes forever to get anything out ,on this run it took about 20 minutes to get 50 ml of 85% abv. I would estimate the wast wash would have an abv of less than 5%. If I made another analyser coil I would space the coils out ,a bit like a spring, and go to 25 mm pipe. The pid controles the cooling water to the rectifying condensers,which are hooked up in series.I did try your idea of having a condenser at the bottom of the rectifier filled with methanol, but found that the coiled re-flux columns in series worked as well, with out having two separate cooling systems.I understand runing 5ml a minute @ 150 watts is good going, but I am pumping 1kw into this, and it is just a striping run.I will take the coil of the bottom and put the pot on, and run the spirit again at about 40/50%, at that abv I have no trouble getting 95 + %.

@@Jack-It-UP OK so the high flow rate is for stripping. Do you have a 0-10% hydrometer or a pycnometer bottle? I aim to get the waste well under 1% as even 1% is around 10% of alcohol loss. Using a precision hydrometer is a bit of a pain as you need an extra large parrot. A 10ml pycnometer bottle and mg weighing scales gives better accuracy at lower cost but is more fiddly to do. Waste alcohol is the key parameter in continuous stripping and might be useful to measure.

That sounds similar to my own experience. What is the diameter and length of your rectifying column? If you're aiming for a higher alcohol concentration then I suspect that you're running the still too fast. If you're measuring surface temperature then it's probably going to be a couple of degrees below core temperature. With my column which is about 28 mm in diameter, I run it at about 600 mL of wash per hour and about 76°C surface temperature to get a product concentration of over 96%.

No I have not come across Ulka pumps before. I've had a look at them. They are vibrating pumps but I'm not sure how they're controlled. I see they can develop pretty high pressures which means they're probably able to overcome partial blockages easily. That's a problem I've had with peristaltic pumps. 1,000 watts of steam is a lot more than I use. What is the diameter of your columns? I use a single 28 mm column that's about 1500 mm long. That requires about 150 watts of steam produces spirit at 96%+.

I use 24/40 glass ware for the column, where the narrowest point is about 17 mm and 1800 mm long. I control the pumps with dimmer switches,they don't seem to have a huge range of control, but lots of things to play with, pump size, some think better than a dimmer switch. At 1kw I am distilling about 10 litres of wash an hour or so. I will time it tonight to get a accurate number.The wash I am doing now is 180 litres and want to distill at least 3 times

@@Jack-It-UP what kind of column are you using? Is it a Vigreux? You have a high length to width ratio of 90 or so. How do you arrange stripping and rectifying? do you inject wash part way up the column and steam at the bottom?

​@@tight1449 Hi, at the moment I am using 3 re-flux columns and one column full of rashig rings.Each column is about 450mm. They sit on top of a coil of 19 mm by 6m copper pipe,(idea I got from you,but yours was square)I feed the steam into the lower end of the coil( I have glass fittings to let the water drain out) and the column sits on top of the coil. I inject the wash in about a 100mm down from the top of the coil. Now that I have the steam generator sorted,it runs with very little attention.By adjusting the pid temp at the top by a degree or so I can get the abv to move accordingly, things hum at about 90-91% abv for this set up. I am looking forward to you posting some more on your jam jar condenser or is it a column, so I can borrow some more of your ideas. I nearly got some snyder columns at the right price but it fell through. Some feed back on the jam jars would be great, I can see some potential problems with what materials to use. Cheers

@@Jack-It-UP What is the rate of wash injection and steam flow? Sounds as though is you dial back you will get higher proof.

I am working on it. The version shown here was not well made! it used a lot of wood and silicone sealant and leaked after a few hours so I was not able to evaluate it fully. It then got shelved but is now being rebuilt with brass and solder. Hope to have some results soon.

I appreciate the reply! In my view, it was far from a failure on your part because I learned of it and now know not to do that. There is huge value to me for that, and I thank you!@@tight1449

Thank you!

Good idea. I have not tried it but I will.

I didn't know that. I have now ordered a stainless steel stone. I'm planning to do a 50 l batch at once so thanks. No doubt the stone would have fallen apart!

@@tight1449 happens to the best of us. I put an air stone in overnight to air out a fresh batch. The entire stone was dissolved and settled in the bottom of the jar Total loss, lesson learned 💪🍻

@@whiskeybenthellbound.7600 My stainless stone has arrived from China. Old one tossed. Thanks again.

@@tight1449 no worries my man. Clean it periodically when needed. They last forever though 💪🍻

Thanks for the comment. I have looked at Proview. Powerful system and the machine learning part of it is promising for still control. It is complicated to install on the Pi and I have not got it working yet. I have it working on a linux desktop and hope to have it running on the pi soon.

The wide tube conveys vapour up, the narrower bend tube takes liquid down.

@@tight1449 thanks for the reply

Had not thought of that but it makes sense. But I also understand that if you do it where it is against the law it tastes better?

Order 5 and 2 may arrive in tact. Law of averages.

Sorry, I have had other matters. I am rebuilding the Bonne Maman column and documenting the build but am deferring publication until I have tested it so I can report if it is any good or not.

I have started to do it. It's not as hard as I thought it would be but the cost of and space needed for the equipment is substantial.

Glad it was helpful!

So am I. I have put more solder on the floor than on copper and have made more leaky joints than sound ones!

The iron core makes coins more difficult to drill but it's still quite easy if you hold them in a machine vice. It makes no difference to the ease of soldering and no iron is exposed afterwards so it cannot affect the flavour.

I'm working on it. The original was a lash up held together with silicone sealant and leaked after a few hours. I am rebuilding it and will post a video when I have tested it so can report on how it performs in detail.

Pot distillation is usually done at full power, typically several kW, but column reflux distillation requires much lower power, typically around 20W per square centimetre of column cross section area. The main challenge though is that this heater power needs to be precisely controllable to within about 1% of the calculated power for the column. This power setting changes throughout the run for batch distillation as described in my videos on latent heat and column cooling. So depending on the column size you'll need a heater control mechanism that probably doesn't need to be over about 1000W but does need to be controllable with resolution of about 1W at the lower end and 10W at the higher end. There is no such thing mass produced for other purposes. You can buy control systems like that from still suppliers but they are expensive and you're better off making one but you have to know a bit about electronics to do that. You can get cheap commercial hot plates for heating a single saucepan but these are not suitable for two reasons. The first is that they work by switching the hot plate off and on with a variable duty cycle and this is too slow to allow stable steam production from a boiler. The other reason is that they contain a switch that turns the heater off and on and this switch sparks and will ignite alcohol vapour from any alcohol spilt on the floor. If you're making vodka or gin you're going to need pretty precise reflux column control. The demands are not as great with whiskey or rum that are typically made with pot stills, and can be made with fairly crude columns with only a small number of plates, aimed at getting the alcohol content up to 80 to 90%. With that objective, the control parameter resolution is not that critical, and you could probably get away with +/- 5% rather than +/- 1% but that still needs a specialist controller.

Exactly. You don't want anyone seeing glinting copper kit at the back of a garage or someone will nick it!

I was selective. I could make a much longer video that would make many "thank God I didn't do that when I made mine" roll through you head!"

Thank you for the suggestion, I will have a look at it. Looks like it is just what I need for the infernal feedback control loop problem.

I have made a second video about methanol which contradicts some of the things I said in this one.

I'm working on it. The original was a lash up using tin lids, wood, and silicon sealant to hold it together and it didn't take long before it started to leak, so I wasn't able to characterize its performance properly. I've dismantled it and bought a brass plate that I plan to rebuild it around. I'll post on it when I've finished however good or bad it turns out to be.