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I don’t really agree with this shift, especially since Secret Lairs were printed to demand for the first four years, and prices remained high without problems. They could keep the same month-long print window, letting people order what they want, just as they did before. For this drop, it’s clear backdoor links allowed people to cut in line, which crashed the site and caused erratic wait times. Printing to demand could have prevented a lot of these issues. Printing to demand still drives prices up, it just takes longer. Like we’ve seen, Secret Lair prices usually take 10-16 months to mature. This new model, though, drives prices sky-high immediately and invites price-gouging on items that sell out instantly. It’s leaving a lot of fans frustrated. The only ones winning here are the bots and people who found loopholes. Personally, I grabbed the copies I wanted by checking out within 5 seconds, but others who tried after 10 seconds missed out entirely. That doesn’t feel like a fair chance for everyone.

shiny :D

@@CommanderSmiths gilded with light.

That super sucks! :(

But wouldn't you still have to wait in line? Or are you saying have the cart link already copied and then paste that? Sorry I may sound like an old dinosaur by not getting this lol

@CommanderSmiths Basically it was a direct link to the payment confirmation part of the order/cart since it wad assigned a different url than the portal queue. Just copy paste, pay and confirm.

@@fightscrime Very interesting. Thanks for explaining that :)

It just feels weird to have a "trick" with something like this. Kinda gives a bad taste in the mouth that we all don't have the same opportunities to purchase this product. This alone should be the reason they go back to print to demand. ~CS Adam

Yeah it sounds like there is a lot of people cheating the system... sucks for people like us who took the time to be there when it opened and waited in line only to get screwed because we didn't cheat. Bad feelings for sure ~CS Adam

I'm not mad that I got my copies... I didn't break any rules with getting my allowed copies and buying for Lowery who couldn't be there to buy. I'm upset that others didn't have the chance to do the same. It seems like there was a lot of people using secret links to avoid the line. Which makes sense why the wait time was jumping all over the place. I think this alone should be the reason to go back to print to demand. Didn't have issues like this before and Wizards is making max amount of money so I don't know why they don't switch back to that format because they're leaving money on the table. ~CS Adam

@@thehomelessgunshelter7476 lucky duck you..... less than ten seconds in line, and had to wait two hours.

It seems like a no brainer that they open this back up to a print to demand but there probably is some IP issues that maybe they can only have so much out there... I doubt it but I for sure think they should open this back up if possible. ~CS Adam

It’s not a brainer. Want the other cards. I want the berserker and and I want the storm‘s Will with Storm. Do you understand what I’m saying?

@@richardmolano5538 I was more saying that if they wanted to make more money and also make people happy it's a no brainer to make more of this... I'm just not sure they can unfortunately which sucks. They should've planned this out and knew the demand for this.

@@ahkoo83 they are making too many things....... they need quality, not quantity. But clearly they also need enough of that quality item.

Yeah I'm not sure. But I think if they did like they did with the Extra Life drop and have a certain amount premade and have the shipping right away and once those sell out change the shipping to a later date like they did with that drop it would work out perfect for everyone. So much money is being left on the table here. ~CS Adam

Good for them.

I don't know how that is possible... crazy that there are ways to do so. It makes sense as the time would fluctuate non stop. I guess I don't know the ways to cheat and had to wait in line like us normies lol The fact that this is happening as well should be a clear indication to do print to demand. ~CS Adam

@@CommanderSmiths they used a back door in the server; it was leaked by someone that works for wizards. Very much a fireable offense..... but it was most likely a "Screw you, I quit!" Protest thing. But silent.....

@@obadijahparks Crazy!

24 packs

Yes they changed that rule like 3-4 years ago I think. So tokens do go to the graveyard and trigger such affects but immediately disappear when they hit so recursion affects don't work. Good question though as that wasn't always the case. I think they changed the rule at the same time that they allow for your commander to hit the graveyard before choosing if you want it to go to the command zone. Before you had to choose if you wanted the graveyard affect or do you want it to go to the command zone. Now we have it hit the graveyard and then you can decide to put it in the command zone :)

Sadly, no. Because tokens are not cards. I hate to be the guy to tell a content creator they are wrong but it would suck to be corrected in the middle of a game where you’ve got a dead-ish card in play that you’ve wasted mana on.

@@aaronisbell377 You're totally right! I was thinking a black "creature" even though I did say card in the stream... I have played this in my Daryl deck and haven't had anyone catch that it specifically states "card" in which the token isn't considered to be. Looks like I have two changes to make in this deck and my Daryl deck. Thanks for the clarification! If it would've said "black creatures go to the graveyard" this would've worked. :)

I got lucky on that one! :)

lol

So I ordered mine in the first 2 min the sale went live. In the beginning it was shipping by October 16th but they sold so much right away that they sold out of their pre made inventory and had to push all future orders out until 2025.

The secret lair or are you talking about the precon? ~CS Adam

@@CommanderSmiths just a precon for duskmourn...... I swear half the product I buy from various places is messed up.

I had that in my notes but maybe I didn't mention that. :)

We can't sell them but if you become a patron at certain levels you pick any you want depending on the level you are each month :)

I was thinking if he was in the 99 it would be more fair as you wouldn't have access to him as easily as you do with him being your commander but with tutors and such maybe he's more of problem that way but everything is a problem with tutors lol I see your point with him as your commander because it's harder to cheat out when he's in the command zone. But man when he's out that spells trouble :) ~CS Adam

Thanks for the comment! Yeah you make some very good points. I think the power 9 stuff is pretty much off limits although I don't think the power is too OP for commander for the mox's and lotus but the price for sure is there! Totally agree with the comparison to jeweled lotus. Should be interesting to see what happens moving forward. ~CS Adam

You’re a baby

lol We're just basing it off of how our playgroup is and Lowery was very much against Balance being unbanned. I just think we have enough board wipes and resets in the game (like cyclonic rift and such) that it would just be another along the lines of others we already have. There is always someone that will find a way to abuse certain cards and typically if that's all that person does people won't play with them anymore. We like to play good games when we play and we don't have very many oppressing plays that happen and when it does with give that person a ton of crap lol Thanks for the comment! Sorry you didn't watch the rest. ~CS Adam

Thanks for the comment! Yeah I think because Lutri was banned immediately we really didn't get to see it in the wild. You make some very valid points. Having it sit on the side like a partner commander is quite an advantage. My question for you is have you seen many of the others from this set being played with other commanders? I really haven't seen that much and I get it their stipulations are a bit tougher to abide by so that's probably why we don't see that much. I was just curious if you saw others playing them :) ~CS Adam

I think the B rating was more of cards that had a possibility. There seems to be a gray area of cards we aren't sure of and that's more of where they would fit in the B area. Again this is all speculation so really there is no "wrong" answer. It was just a way to have a discussion :) Thanks for the comment! ~CS Adam

Cry more

Yeah wish he wasn't legendary :)

Oh I like the way you think! ~CS Adam

@@CommanderSmiths it's a beautifully elegant solution. You can have a proxy friendly tier 5, one that is just absolutely absurdly powerful and completely unobtainable and a real testament to see what cards need to be fully banned or not. You don't run any sanctioned tournaments at this level, but you have it at events, and it is your power level 10 and power level 9. Tier 4 is the competitive tournament format, one with no reserved list cards, no proxies, real official magic cards and real official prizes. It is your power level 8 and power level 7 decks. Then you have tier 3, high powered casual. This is your power level 6 and 5. Then you have tier 2, which is modified precons and decks that do not contain any cards from the higher tier lists without rule zero conversations. This is power level 4 and 3. Lastly you have tier 1, which is unmodified precons, and decks that are specifically built without any combos and are built specifically for play against precons. This is your power level 2 and 1. 5 tiers also gives you the ability to cram the old system into the new one so everyone can stop wondering about it

I thought so too! I played him for a while even after he was originally banned lol I love the dude and I think with the level of cards we have now with power creep it fits in as a powerful card for sure but could totally be unbanned. Lowrey's point is he thinks it could be unbanned if Gaea's Cradle was banned. ~CS Adam

Thanks buddy! Appreciate the comments! ~CS Adam

Did you sell yours already after the ban? I think if they unban it they will only have it in the top tier cEDH level. Would you be done with magic if they did that?

@@CommanderSmiths If I wanted to play it in cedh I would just ask the group using the rule zero to be like hey let's play with some banned cards secondly your just ignoring the card is just fundemently bad and even the wizards agreed on that point it was a mistake to make jeweled lotus and was only ever made to be an expensive chase card and was never made with the interest of making a interesting fun or even good card

Well, If jeweled lotus and mana crypt don’t get unbanned, I think im done with mtg :P. I got mana crypt as a wedding anniversary gift, a month before the ban. I know everyone gets mad when people bring up the financial aspect of the game, but the reality is, like it or not it’s there and not everyone’s buying cards to speculate or to make money. Sometimes people buy expensive cards because they love the game and have different play groups. And the ban eviscerated millions of dollars from the pockets of players like that. this whole thing felt like a “how dare you invest in this card game you love”.

Edh is slower, high-powered, faster cedh everyone trying to win as fast as possible with plays differently than edh don't matter how u play as long everyone having fun because not everyone on the same power lvl

Totally agree with all of this. I think they shouldn't have much banned for the highest tier (cEDH) as that is a format that wants the most power and also that's what commander is... having access to cards that you wouldn't normally play with in other formats. If it were up to me I would have almost everything unbanned for the highest tier and then ban accordingly for the lower tiers for sure. I'm kinda excited to see what happens in the coming months even though both Lowery and I are higher power casuals and most likely sticking to the tier 3 level of things if they do a 4 level system :) ~CS Adam

Any idea when we might hear when this could happen

Trying to prove this can work, but the time frame can't line up but the idea will work I can prove it but the RUclips have a harder time to set up but I been testing it normal commander Is fine can't really mix with high-powered and cedh so the idea I been testing is can edh be it's own format and high-powered and cedh into another group yes it's sounds crazy but high-powered and cedh just because 1 wins faster than the other but they both can compete with each other

But because I living with friends my team and I can't prove anything because we don't have time to film on RUclips and other things but commander slow high-powered faster then commander cedh is even faster why we having a hard time to prove because we can't get worked done plus I can't get a hold of people who make the game

I know right! I wish it had black or red with it... it would make this a power house mill deck for sure if it had that and I'm guessing everyone would hate it lol ~CS Adam

Good point. I think what Lowery was trying to say is Deflecting Swat would've been more fitting. I think that would've been a good card and fit in the story and red theme. :) ~CS Adam

@@CommanderSmiths agreed there :) but I do think the art was meant as a counter not a deflect. Deflecting away would have fit the theme better, agreed!

100% I also think it could be an ok replacement for dockside in a way :) A much much much lower power but doing something fun for sure and potentially a ton of value!

I bet you're right on that!