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Been playing evoker recently as my first alt TWW and this by far is the best guide

It’s simple: tank and healer balance is F tier and “meta or no invite” attitude has gone to level 100000 since aug was released. And not a single current meta spec (I mean enhance, assa, disc, prot pala, frost dk, resto sham, ele or boomy) is fun.

Thanks alot, gonna main mw next season, this was so helpful

As a healer what you miss, for like 4 expansions already, is power. Power to keep the group up when things go south. Like the dps fucked up with interrupts and cc u have the healer to back up for it. Forgotten are the days when a healer could be the hero of the group and push the key two or three lvls above the ilvl of the group. That happened in only one expansion, Legion. And for that alone Legion was the best expansion.

As someone who likes to push high keys (3592 dps warrior during tww pre patch), tanking is a lot harder than it was in df. In s3 df I, a warrior dps went into a 24 fortified bolstering everbloom as prot and was fine without really being proficient at the spec. Fast forward to this season, I picked up tanking part way through the season because that is what my group needed. The first thing i noticed is that 11s felt as hard and in some places harder than those 24-25s in s3 df. Not to mention going into 12s. It was a big shock going from those keys in df to needing to rotate through more cds than you have access to. Needing to worry this much about living in keys below title as a geared tank who also needs to do all of the other tank things with dps chomping at that bit to send cds makes the role a lot harder than it has been. It really ends up showing the difference between ok, good, and great players. When the tank population is already as low as it was in df, making tanking harder in those mid level of push keys (higher than 10s less than title) really only culled that population. As a result, there are way less tanks and those who are there tend to have a hard time not falling over on pulls because of what is required of them.

Some friendly advice. Please stop putting the beeping noise every time you put up new title text.

Your vids have kept me going in M+ (wow in general) allowing me to try new classes as I have all to 80. But I am just so bored with WoW this expansion I’m gonna take a LONG break. I hate feeling like I HAVE to play tank or heals if I want to get into an M+. Or play a DPS that everyone wants because of a tier list. Typical night is me spending 20 mins getting into a group just to have it fail 25 mins in. Do that again and in two hours I have no crests, no gear, and no IO score increase. I’m done with M+

The reason people stop tanking is that Random idiot DPS thinks he/she should decide the route. And people stop playing healers because no matter what goes wrong or what happens idiotic DPS and over pulling tanks says its a healer problem.

Just going to put it straight, if you are not playing wow in a guild environment, you are not playing the game. Join a guild, find buddies to do keys with, enjoy the game.

Seeing a healer meleeing to be able to heal shows me healing is dead in the game. This is pathetic.

It has nothing to do with the skill of players or parties already full of dps. The community lowky blacklisted any tank or healer thats not a Ppally, Bdk, Rshaman, Dpriest. Then complain that there are no tanks or healers. It's just that simple. All the streamers who are like just play Rshamn or when they say Ppally is going to be really strong better than other tanks, this is what you get.

I've pugged up to +10s (plan to push higher next week) as a MW healer. My big issues are: 1) QoL. I don't know about other healers but as MW it seems the blizz devs don't know, or care, how the class works. Useless talents, stomp requires a proc to reset CD so on mobile fights I can easily find myself SOL if the tank runs all over the place, 70-80% of all my healing comes from like 3 talents/abilities while others are like 1-2% of total healing. The class is generally just a mess. I don't think they really have any clue how the class is played and are just randomly changing things every patch or 2. Far too often the difficulty of the encounters stems from my abilities, not the encounter. 2) No spare CDs. On the lower keys if something went wrong I could pop a CD or two and really feel like I'm carrying. Higher keys the damage is so high I'm using every CD nearly the second it comes up. There's zero 'wiggle' room. A dps can miss a proc or two, screw up their rotation to dodge aoe, or focus a mechanic, but with mythic+ keys requiring 1M+ sustained hps and HP jackhammering, every GCD is heal or wipe... for nearly 30min straight. 3) Overlapping abilities/positioning problems. Far too often boss mechanics put healers in situations that are pretty much untenable. Massive group-wide AOE damage AND you have to do it while dodging aoe/swirlies AND you have to land CC/interrupts AND you can't be too far away from allies due to range issues AND ... AND ... AND ... at some point it just starts to get stupid. For example surgeon stitchflesh is a nightmare on higher keys because the timing of the hook where you have to spam heal while lining up a hook shot to a surgeon that isn't even in place yet but will be by the time the hook fires... all while maintaining my rotations, procs, and healing or we wipe... 4) Playing the UI and not the game. Too much of healing is staring at small boxes and not what is actually on screen. Coupled with the particle vomit that is TWW effects and it starts to become almost ridiculous. 1/2 the time all I see is the UI and some amorphous glowing mass I know is the melee + tanks + me... but even with particle and spell effects turned down it's still impossible to see what's going on. There's been times I've run a dungeon on an alt, after having done it 10x on my healer, and realized 'oh that's what that is' or 'that's what that looks like' because I never had the chance to look at anything for hours on end apart from my UI.

This is a more broad comment than TWW but I will say, the feeling of healing in this game has significantly changed in the last number of expansions. It is now much more of a hectic stressful playstyle compared to earlier expansions and I don't mean "you have to spam", I mean there are so many random mechanics requiring movement etc, interrupts, etc that add to the healing workload and it just makes it less fun. Also, traditionally, people who enjoy playing healing in MMOs enjoy a slower paced more resource management driven gameplay, and simply put, WoW doesn't support that anymore. I used to heal. I quit early in Shadowlands and haven't looked back, I'm an assassin rogue now.

As a healer since 2005 this isn't an issue with WoW, its the video gaming design philosophy of the holy trinity play style. You will always have a shortage in roles requiring more responsibility, this is human nature. This is why people take minimum wage or dont have a job all together they lack the discipline of having that responsibility. In my eyes there is no way to fix it. Overall the lack of queue times and the satisfaction of a successful run keeps me in the healer role. Moral of this story is appreciate those that play the role , thank your tank and healer, they'll appreciate it.

I am heal main. I played healer every patch since wod, aside from brief stunt when S2M shadow priest was meta. My 2 cents: Idk about tanks, but healers desperately need better balance. In a role with such demand you can't just have specs so bad they are dead. Continuing on the balance side, they also need much better balance for solo content. It's absolute bullshit that my 610 evoker struggles with outdoor mobs that get 3shot by my 580 resto druid. And I'm talking just living flame vs wrath, if you include feralweaving, druid is so much better at solo content it's not even funny, even with 30 ilvl gap. Next is barrier of entry. Mastery, that works like evoker's need to go. It's essentially "if you're a good player you heal more", which makes sense if you're old WoW player but how are new players supposed to stay with the healing role if their first contact is evoker where if you stand in shit a lot and take hits(common for new players that are learning ) you're essentially playing without Mastery stat. Lastly, effort vs reward(coming back to my point about balance) Healers completely don't have difficulty curve. You have super sweaty heal specs that go 3000 APM just to do average healing, and you have neanderthal 3 button specs that will just top the meter. If you play harder spec, you should do more healing. Or the utility that they get instead should properly work in raids instead of my stun/knockback just randomly not working on adds every few pulls, or hover casting in place in half of fucking nerub'ar palace because it's apparently filled with pixel high rocks that block blinks. As for tanks, just bake in tank dbm into the game. No wonder no one wants to play them, when the game does such poor job at communicating tank mechanics that an addon is mandatory to play them.

I have pugged many season to r1 title as a healer now. Currently having 3 Heal classes (Druid, Priest, Shaman) in r1 cutoff for the current season. Also playing my Druid as tank or dps from time to time. That said, dps is so much easier and relaxing compared to the other roles. Especially healer is extremely fucked since DF. Every shit os so giga bursty with random one shots. It just sucks. M+ is in one of its worse states it ever was in.

There's no shortage of healer, only shortage of shaman healer...

As a healer player for over 20 years in games, no I don't want to be a support class, and no healing this expansion is not easy. I main a Mistweaver and although I really enjoy playing, I know it is not easy to heal. When the unavoidable AOE damage starts it can get crazy really quick. I wish Mistweaver had more true AOE heals like a Disc Priest or any other healing class. Something that would be great to see would be to have more classes much like FF14 for example, the Astrologian, I main and I consider a support class. Even though most players consider them a healer, which they are and quite strong. Turning all healing classes into support would make the problem of finding a healer just more difficult as many healers do not like how much stuff they have to deal with mechanic wise. Same with tanks, many people that I have talked to that play as a tank say they hate how little defensives they have or how little those defensives help; as well as how long the cooldowns are.

I've been tanking pretty much since Legion and it has become extremely convoluted and NOT fun in TWW. Ever since Legion Blizzard has been deliberatly punishing tanks (with aggro changes, terrible affixes, making dungs more complex, now infinite tank busters). Heres how to fix tanks: - increase tank threat - reduce both amount and damage of tank busters OR add some sort of cheat death on 5 minutes to every tank - buff the damage to be semi-competitive with dps - make tanks self sustainable when played well I feel like there's no rewarding part in tanking other than succeeding the key which people expect from you anyways.

You CAN'T fix player behavior, but you can put regulation and parameter for guilds behavior and forge stupid greedy mf to play by some rules and create better communities to play the game.....Pugs is a wild place where seller and small groups can easily stablish control over others...that why this game is shit right now.

Do a better job of class balance for tanks and scale back the punishing healing mechanics. Also, make worgen paladins a thing

If you have a job with a lot of responsibilities you get payed quite a bit more. Not in wow so what if they have instead of 2 loot pieces per dungeon they did 3 loot pieces but a healer and tank always gets loot. This way there is a lot more reward for the massive responsibility you have as a tank or healer and might entise people to queue up.

Guides keep saying Mastery has top priority but I keep seeing top Ret players go nearly 50% up on Haste (Haste>Mastery>Crit) Am I missing something?

Why open with blades of justice and not judgement? I always feel it has better reach

I’m a 614 warlock and I don’t have issues filling my groups up for +8-+10 keys within a few minutes. The trick is not filling up dps slots first. Lots of tanks q with a dps.

they just need to revert the aoe healing nerfs that came in at the start of TWW. Make healing powerful AND easy. healing needs to be easy. in general, the people that play this role are adverse to responsibility or are looking for a more laid-back, support type experience. If they decide not to go this route (which they definitely won't, if history is any metric), then all healers need to be converted to support roles instead of healing roles.

The reason why I, specifically, have hard times playing healer ou tank, is because other people. Mainly playing healer. I main a druid, 632 ilvl, 2600 IO. A Healer have to heal, to do dps too, to interrupt, to cc, to see if a dps used defensive and if they'll need extra healing, to see if a cast will go out becausa a dps didn't interrupted. Healing, is too stressfull. U don't just heal, u mend other peoples mistakes, and that cause brain damage. I like healing, but other people makes it too stressfull.

I brought my mistweaver monk out of her 6 year long retirement and I definitely forgot how fun it was to heal with them. The fact that you have to do some dps to perform optimally really breaks up the monotony, plus the high mobility that I enjoy on Hunter and Rogue which are my favorite classes.

the worst thing about healer or tank is that if you screw up, then you get flamed ... but it can happen and people dont get that

I don’t know which DPS players need to hear this but; use your fucking kicks/stuns and defensives. Y’all got WAY too comfortable last season and I’m so sick of wiping and bricking to the BASICS of dungeon play. You can’t be perfect, kicks get missed and swirlies get stood in. But when I’m doing a 9 or 10 and 2 of the DPS haven’t used a single kick or defensive, that really sucks. Watch a fucking video on the dungeon. The power fantasy of a healer or tank being an important part of the team, leading the group or saving them from death is awesome. But not when 2/3 of your team is there for a carry.

Idk, I have always been a dps and for me, it was a LOT worse back in bfa to find healers and tanks than it is now.

Healing is a bit too difficult on most classes imo. You have double the work ontop of that responsibility.

You say that the problem is that it puts a major burden on the healer and tank because of increased responsibility. Why not just address this problem of additional responsibility directly? One idea is to try to eliminate the penalty of wiping the party if a tank or healer dies. If a DPS dies, the fight just takes longer. Why not mimic this mechanic if a tank or healer dies? For example, if a tank or healer dies, then that player is now a ghost who still actively participates in the fight but can no longer die. To offset this, the boss now has a stack of a buff that increases their HP pool. If you can revive the ghost, this buff goes away and the boss's HP returns to normal. Just like a DPS dying, the boss will now take additional time to kill, yet does not immediately void the current attempt and force the party to redo the boss fight. This type of a solution lessens the burden of dying in a key role yet also mimics the consequences to the same responsibility as if a DPS died. Reducing the responsibility seems like a more attractive approach rather than just adding extra incentives like loot.

What’s your ilvl?

I feel like if people wants more players in the game too play tank or healer then they should stop trash talking thoses roles if they make a mistake cause in the end you can't clear a mythic dungeon without them

I only play healers, have for 16 years....i will explain EXACTLY why there is a shortage, and it has NOTHING to do with most of the comments here. STOP BEING ASSHOLES TO THE TANKS AND HEALERS. New tank steps in, does something different and people get bitchy, tank pulls too slow, bitchy, too fast...yep bitchy. If you want consistancy, do normal group runs. As a healer, if people die, I get called bad, shit, never play again, etc......yet, I run addons, kicks not happening, people standing in shit...or using their personal cooldown to stand in something bc dps is more important...yet when they NEED the personal, it's on CD...yet I am the bad one because i didn't keep you alive during it. Yes, it my job to heal, but the dungoens have enough normal damage, adding extra doesn't help anyone. At some point, I will let you die to stupid. Does that make me bad..no YOU are bad for not doing your job, which is dps and stop as much damage as possible. So...you want more tanks healers in your runs....stop being an asshole to everyone of us, eventually we have enough of it.

I think the shortage of tanks and healers is artificial. It's more probable that the majority just don't want to pug, especially with how toxic mythic+ has always have been towards a mistake from a tank/healer. They made some improvements to help pugging e.g. added ingame voice comms, but in the end it's mostly community caused problem, so the real solution is to stop pugging and make a static group/joing a guild/etc.

Learning the game on that level. Nah fam

Tank and healers have shortages just because levelling and gearing process is too much of a hassle, grindy and expensive for casual gamers. If you're a dps main on raid and you want tank for m+? You have to refarm weapons/shield/trinket/ring, then you have to fully upgrade ALL of that to the highest track using valor. And your crafted gears pretty much useless especially weapons (unless you're a DK or Feral), so you're pretty much are stuck with a character with lower ilvl or terrible sub stat for tanking and getting smacked by the mobs so hard because you have sub optimal versatility or other stats, so you're pretty much tanking sub-optimally ruining your own fun and others experience too. What about just making an alt just for doing mythic plus? If you need 8 M+ for your main, 8 M+ for your alt and you have to raid 4h weekly for progression and reclearing raid as a casual, then you have to farm raid trinket for your alt (Swarmlords), that's quite a lot of commitment to ask from casual gamers. I guess the best solution is to make alt gearing way easier in terms of catching up to your main and make raid trinkets and gear more accessible maybe with a currency or something. Yes gearing up and alt is pretty easy now especially if you have 25 Renown on all TWW Reps (You get 4 enchanted runed crests and you get 1 more from Queen's story), but crafting 7 gears gets pretty expensive for some people. Not to mention if you have enough Gilded Crest you have to recraft everything again which costs gold yet again.

Mythic plus has been plaguing the game imo. I can find healers and tanks in raid just fine even over the holidays when pugging. In pvp it's the same. Only in mythic plus can I wash my car make a sandwhich and build a rocket before a healer shows up. Mythic plus has the most issues out of all content styles in the game currently and I'm not sure blizzard can fix it

Issue 1 - "There's no tanks/healers" - refuses to even try to heal or tank. Solution: play a tank/healer yourself and add some to the queue. You'll learn new skills that will make you a better dps in the process and will then be able to help tanks/healers a lot more afterward. Issue 2 - "Where's all the tanks/healers???" - makes a group with 3 dps, filtering out all tanks and healers that queue with a friend which is many of us. Solution: never, EVER, be 3 dps; always leave room for a dps if you need a tank or healer. 2 if you need both. You're 3 dps friends? See issue/solution #1. Issue 3a - "Why won't tanks/healers queue for my +X key" - lists a +X key they've only done at X-3 difficulty. Solution: If you're gonna list a +10, have done a +9 at least. Some people won't queue if you haven't done the +10, others will try you if you've done the +9. Do more keys; you're way more likely to get people if you have 50 +9s done than if you have 6. Issue 3b - "Why is nobody queuing for my +2-3, +5-7, or +9?" - those are dead levels. People do +4s for runed crests, +8 for hero gear and gilded crests, +10-11 for vault and pushing to a +12. Solution: avoid the dead levels. Issue 4a - "Why is nobody queuing for my Ara Kara" - you got no poison dispels. Get at least 3 of those. Monk, Druids, Pallies, Shamans, Evokers can get rid of poisons, so can hunters, DKs can AMS it. If you don't run the poison dispel talents on those classes in this dungeon for the last boss you are griefing your group. Issue 4b - "Why is nobody queuing for my Brim but Whole?" - you got no curse dispels. Get 2 of them ideally: Shaman, Druid, Mage. Evoker can do it but only every minute. If you don't run the curse dispel talents on those classes in this dungeon for the warlocks you are griefing your group.

As a player that have tank and healer, it is not a lack of those roles that is the problem. Neither class get an invite to normal raid or low mythic dungeons, even with several open slots (over multile groups) If those classes were lacking, people would not be able to cherry pick the best geared, higherst rated or the optimal class/spec. If they were lacking, people would be taking whatever was strong enough for waht they need. 61+0 tank and healer is high enough geared for most content, timed a +4 is good enough proof that they can do that +2 you listed and the list goes on.

In my opinion as a new healer. Stop being able to brick a key. Simple. If you complete the dungeon it goes up by 1, if you time it, it goes up by 2. But failing causes no issues. People only get toxic and point fingers for blame when they realise the key is bricked. This will alleviate the stress of these roles massively

NERFING them wasn't the move this expansion. It exacerbated the issue

Main healer with all 13s willing to push into 14s, i uninstalled yesterday, the state of the game is so bad i just didnt have fun anymore. We'll try again next season, maybe.

would prefer to see damage to be the more important factor in the success of a group rather than the survivability... survivability should be easier for both tanks and healers and then going back to more focus on pushing the damage to make the timer. now with voidweaver priests and crackle monks the dps rotations are slowly becoming more interesting for healers.

I tried healing, healed for 2 seasons, hit title on one season, and quit the second season, too much responsibility, too few rewards, now, I do understand that healer/tank roll is significantly easier in a 5m premade team but if you try to bug is a nightmare, what shocked me the most is that even at decent level of keys aka let say 14-16 this season, people still don't proper use defensives/stuns/interrupts etc

It's also part that there's no reason for a vast and I mean like 85% plus, to do a key above a 10. Im in a top 20 US guild. And I think too is there is a problem with after prog is done for raid no one wants to actively play the game that much because it's more of the same. We just want to chill and not do anything other than reclear and keys are just, boring? And there's no reason after your 8 10s to do anymore. It's just meh.

I've been healing since vanilla, but in this expansion I utterly hate it. It feels terrible and I don't know why :S

I'm full bis on my prot pally you won't drag me back to playing m+, #raidloging