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Jordanstown BT37, I suppose I should hope I never need your services!

Thanks, there is a heating wire (element) in the top portion of the pipe, the near horizontal bit, I was hoping that would be sufficient, so keep the whole thing ice free? I can easily remove the top connector, if it gets really cold, effectively letting the condensate just drip out.

Hello David, thanks for the comment, are you saying to bend pipes were possible, so lessen pressure drop and then to increase rad sizes?

@@UFZ7482 Sorry I've not made myself clear, I meant the prep work video, it would be useful for me to watch how you bend the pipes for replacement of a K1 to K2 or K3.

@@davidreece1642 Ah David, i have not replaced any! I did replace some with aluminium and re-plumbed the ends, so came through the floor at the correct centres. I also have been upgrading the insulation in each room. I take your point that moving from K1 to 2, 3 is an alternative.

@@UFZ7482 OK, I'm sure I'l find your prep video helpful nonetheless.

@@davidreece1642 I hope to do it this week. @GlynHudson does show how to mod the rad tails in his video, ruclips.net/video/bHsp7fDw_bg/видео.html

Thanks Derek, I'd love to know more about your system.

Thanks Norman, are you planning your own install?

@@UFZ7482 Keith - I am not currently planning to install anything. I had a new gas boiler fitted in 2021 after deciding the time was not right for me and a ASHP. My new system has however given me a high degree of confidence that the house is ‘heat pump ready’, as I am running at low flow temperatures on weather compensation with a flow of 45° at -2°C. I just like to keep up with the subject of heat pumps and how things are developing in terms of system design and installation. For the most part it is not a pretty picture.

Thanks, I've skimped on most aspects of the install, so I may as well skimp on the curve too. So far so good; I think that once the weather is cold for a prolonged period we'll start to see true results.

@@UFZ7482 I'm sure you are but you should be very proud of your work 👍

Nice video. Regarding zoning- as far as I understand from the research I have done, zoning will cause the HP to cycle more which will impact your SCOP What is the Delta T on the flow and return to the radiators? Have you got it as low as 5C?

@@simonthompson15 Thanks Simon. The zoning was always an experiment, what had hoped to try experimenting with was having the 2 zones mutually exclusive, so the thermal load and characteristics were similar, where it was z1 on or z2. I have only crudely balanced the rads. I did have some rads (the furthest ones) not coming on, due to poor balancing, now i have all of them heating, so each is definitely getting flow. The flow temps I've seen are only about 30C at the heat meter (a couple of metres from the HP), so on each rad the drop is only a couple of degrees between F & R. I have not seen a 45C flow temp yet out of the system, simply because it's not cold enough. Most rads are still mild steel, downstairs about 4/7 are MS, 2 are AL and 1 is my 'all wall'. Upstairs 3 aluminium and 6 steel. Once i see a 45C flow, I'll check the deltas again and hopefully get closer to 5C. I do intend to do a vid about the ongoing preparation of the house for the HP,.... maybe this weekend? On a side note, I am not super concerned with COP/SCOP,.. yes it's a good measure of efficiency (obviously), but i think i an more concerned with the absolute amount of input energy needed to heat the house as opposed to the 'multiplier'.

Thanks. The Kamstrup seems good, I use it to momentarily check flow rate, flow & return temps and delta T. My only concern was it arrived with the run hours at a value and i couldn't see how to resent it. mind you I didn't look very hard.

I do have vaillant schematics for the system, although it is quite high level, it involves a lot of head scratching. Saving the full installation cost, which I guess it in the region of ~£5K. The only gas we have is bottles/cylinders of propane for the hob and that is remaining in place. The boiler I had was oil fired. I'm an electrical engineer, but I will get the ultimate connections to the fuseboard check by a qualified sparkie.

Why not share what you think instead of "I know something you don't"

@@TheFredbackLoop been a heating engineer for 20 years and I have never seen returns connected together like that the hot water circuit should connect directly to one port and heating circuit to the other. Probably would work but it’s not right

@@TheFredbackLoop elearning.vaillant.com/vrc700/ci/en/documents/uk/infopool/System_diagrams.pdf Here is the link to the pipe schematics. Its not pipped correctly

@@TheFredbackLoop elearning.vaillant.com/vrc700/ci/en/documents/uk/infopool/System_diagrams.pdf Here is the link to the pipe schematics. Its not pipped correctly

My DHW and zone 2 (upstairs) share a common return. The zone 1 (downstairs) is also commoned with the Z2 return. The 3 flows are separate. In an ideal world I would rectify this but that is the way is it for now. I do know that I have a bit of spurious circulation on a couple of upstairs rads when the Z2 valve is closed (so Z2 supposedly off) and the tank is being heated (DHW on). Thanks for the heads-up.

Thanks for the comment Derek, the isolator is about 1m from the centre line, so is on the edge of the zone. The diagrams are a bit ambiguous, I used dim A (2.1m) about the centre. Did you change the water tank or are you running with the original, as I am doing initially (until I discover the coil is not big enough)?

​@UFZ7482 I am using a previous installed mixergy tank. I have just completed thd install now as thd 35mm pipework needed a press tool , soldering 35mm i found difficult. Just over 1 hour to heat the tank from cold 250l so just over 8kw input. Cop 2.6

@@derekpaisley620 what is your starting temp, 15C? and what is your final temp in the tank?

@@UFZ7482 start was 27 deg to 56 deg. I have just completed another run in eco mode. 32 to 55 in 1 hour 45. Cop 4.6

I hope to do a tease and reveal on that later.

Hey Greg, they originally sent me the wrong one (30270-1012) Which I initially did not notice, so used that and ordered all the ancillary parts they suggested. I then realised it was wrong, so they sent me more correct 30359-1013, which does include the hydraulic station and valves for a 2 zone UFH system. I would say that there is a wealth of info & wiring diagrams, but it is all quite disjointed, maybe simply to cope with the various systems and configurations.

Hello Glyn, thanks for the comment,.... yes i am waiting on delivery of a 1m propane pigtail to get the cylinder outside the scaffold tower structure. I plan to lift the unit 0.5m at a time, then place the scaffold boards under, so it's never more than 0.5m from a solid base. I didn't consider the genie,... well maybe look again, thanks for the suggestion.

Yes I hope so,.... i did read somewhere meter on the flow,....oh, you'll see at time 0.25 there is a sticker on the flow meter and it is to be installed on the flow.

Heatmeter bodys can be fitted on either flow or return, historically the meter body was usually fitted on Return to avoid high temperatures, this is not an issue with heat pumps. Ultrasonic heatmeters like this Kamstrup work best with the body fitted on the flow, this is how they are configured by default. But this can be changed in config settings if needed:, see:ruclips.net/video/t2lBcXVAEGk/видео.htmlsi=CzasLKU-5_4P5t6B

@@GlynHudson Thanks . Just one thing , I was helping some local installers with OEM shop kit and noticed included instructions to put flow meter on flow but the meter was actual setup the other way around resulting in negative flow reading . Sontex 789 was set to "Coldpipe" . Its just FYI .

@@gopikrishnayogarajah sorry for confusion, Sontex superstatic meters work best on return,but can be configured for either. Going forward we're standardising on ultrasonic meters which will be configured for the flow..

Thanks

I think it's the return that is nearest the side. CLARIFICATION, it's the flow that is nearest the (left) side of the hydraulic unit. The return is closer to the (right, viewed from the front) side of the external unit.

Got it from mid wales plumbing & heating...

Sure Graham, just email me using the address on the about page.

Thanks Norman, this initial batch is deigned to be short, but I do hear you, what areas do you want more detail, electrical, plumbing, sizing, mounting, ,...? I will be doing other ones where i will recap what i did and why, these will have more detail. - Forgot to say, i will definitely be doing a more detailed recap of this one, as i now have most of the internal piping done.

@@UFZ7482 Ahh OK - I did not realise you were going to follow up in longer form. I will take any and all of the detail you are prepared to share (but heat loss of property, selection of HP, control strategy, pipe sizing et al)😉👍

Nice series, looks like your making a good job of it! What's the advantage of the hydrolic unit? It looks like a quite a bulky unit for just a diverter valve and a booster heater which probably won't be needed. What else is inside it? I've seen Inta now make a AFV that will fit directly into the HP outlet

@@GlynHudson Thanks, I suppose i was being a bit lazy going for the hydraulic station. It controls the external unit (so has a controller), it also has the diverter valve, expansion tank, pressure gauge, backup heater,... you could roll your own.

It's a good question and one I don't know the full answer to. I don't think UK consumer law would let manufacturers qualify they statutory guarantee obligations. I would imagine that if an internal part failed (one that I had no access to) it would be covered by the normal manufacturing warranty. I also have good video evidence of how installed it.

It doesn’t matter how well it is installed, if you’re not qualified, the warrenty is void.

I hope it will be of use to you; I'm intending not to record much of me drilling holes and soldering, there are lots of others that do it much better than me.

Thanks

Norman, err I didn't, I mostly based the sizing of the HP on the actual oil usage, so the fact that I need(ed) 2000 litres to heat the house would implicitly include the loss to air change. OK, so that is my free get out of jail card used. I also did ignore it in the calcs because we have a well sealed double glazing, sealed exterior door. The wood burning stove has its own air feed. I am aware of 4 points of leakage. The loft hatch, there are 2 eaves doors in the knee wall over the garage and the door from the utility room to the garage, all of which are on my list to improve before next winter. As you know, quantifying air change is difficult, at this point ii think it will add 10% to my heat loss, but i do plan to reduce it anyway. I also have a heat recovery ventilation system in the garage,.... maybe the next project.

@@UFZ7482 Thank you for your detailed answer. I also think it is the case that the MCS assumptions overestimate air leakage. The idea of using oil or gas consumption is a sound one - the only caveat is how the homeowner was operating the system. Two hours in the morning and two or three hours in the evening no matter how cold they are is not uncommon.😀

@@normanboyes4983 Yes Normal, I think that air leakage is over-egged to some extent. The energy needed to heat the mass of the building is vast compared to the mass of air even if it is changing 'regularly'. I guess to be fair to MCS, they want to make sure all the obvious areas of loss are addressed and they are not funding a project doomed by the fact the house had no windows. I also agree that my 32kW boiler did its job when on and those 32kW did/do paper over all thermal cracks. Now, if my theory calcs and actual usage had been differed by say 30% or more, I would have looked deeper. I should also say that I also have a goal of spending less than £750 to 1k annually to heat the house. I some respects if the 7kW HP doesn't do it, I'll be adding more insulation!

The ground floor is a concrete sub floor with 1" (25mm) polystyrene insulation layer and then a sand/cement screed on top. We have no suspended floors. BTW, I set the screed floors at a U value of 0.8. this figure also takes account of floor coverings.

I have done my own calcs, which will soon be the subject of a video,... but in short, i have insulated (internally) about 50% of the external walls, which is about 65% of the main living areas. Over the pas few years I have replaced steel rads for aluminium, put more insulation in the loft,.... I also have solar (DHW) water heating panels. I also got vaillant to check my calcs. I should have the video out in a day or two.

James, i did the sizing video yesterday,... ruclips.net/video/FgOLPGa4FF8/видео.html

@@UFZ7482 Thanks! I look forward to watching it!

I was wondering whether I could find a tame MCS to formalise my design and enable the subsidy to be claimed somehow

Unfortunately no grants in Northern Ireland. anyway I plan to do all the install, electrical & plumbing, I may get a spark to check the mains parts. So the cost for me will be only the hardware costs. Even if there were grants available, you have to go through MCS, so effectively the grant would cover (hopefully) the install cost, so you still have to buy the hardware. I would also refer you to @michaeldepodesta001 & @heatgeek.

@@JamesUKE92 You might find one that has just started on heat pumps and wants to ease in slowly, so they check your calcs. You'll see how i did it, with a spreadsheet.

Thanks, I plan to test my way out of the zone/no zone question. I believe there is a little bit of obsession around COP/SCOP, where the search is for the best COP perhaps at the expense of overall running costs (which of course represents energy used). For me there is little point in a better COP if you have to use more energy (raw material) to get that better COP.

@@UFZ7482Keith I do not think the zone not zone debate is specifically focussed on COP - more reducing unnecessary cycling, I think.

@@normanboyes4983 Hello again Norman, i think I understood that the cycling will do 2 things, reduce the (S)COP and reduce the life of the HP. Weather compensation control really tries to get a graph (equation) for the thermal performance of the property and zoning creates 3 different heat in to heat out characteristics. The HP could be asked to only heat Z1 or only Z2 or both Z1 & Z2, each with their unique graph/characteristics. So in theory the weather will only be suited to one or other or none. I'll actually be running some experiments to see if I can get any knowledge on this.

@@UFZ7482 What I have found is this - I am operating a gas boiler (Viessmann 200 running weather compensation) it took me about 18 months to finish fine tuning my curve and set point), we leave all our doors open during the day (close the bathroom door when needed 😉) and the house is comfortable 24/7 throughout - and there is not a room thermostat in the house. Basically low temperature heating is just so different the system just trickles heat in and it just sort of creeps up to the set point. In control terms the house itself is a slow system (thermal inertia?), we are used to high temperature system which accelerates away from the lights burning rubber until we reach the next red light and we have to slam the anchors on, so there is more need for zoning and ‘sophisticated controls’ with high temperature systems. To be honest I have TRVs on all my rads but they are not needed (ever) and were a waste of money (I have no rooms with troublesome solar gain in the heating season). Sorry for the ramble.😀👍

@@normanboyes4983 It's an interesting observation you have made and related to the problem of fossil fuels being so cheap that we just used raw power to get from temp A to temp B as quickly as possible. HPs will be a big change form most, people never understood, the tortoise won the race.

Thanks, I hope the info i give is helpful, let me know if you need anything specific. Have you watched Michael de Podesta's videos, I'd recommend... @michaeldepodesta001

Thanks for the kind comment. I have been selling the full plans if you are interested, just email me at the address on my about page. Replace the 'x' in the email address.